why do atheists define themselves this way? (soul, Jehovah's Witness, churches)

[Boxcar Overkill]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

I know this response is going to ruffle a lot of feathers, but here goes:

The answer to your question is that, in my opinion, they don't. Just as you describe, there is no reason for true atheists to waste their time discussing something they believe doesn't exist. If you think about it, to do so would simply be stupidity. I don't believe in gnomes and I don't spend any time slamming them either. I just don't think about it. It never crosses my mind. If someone tells me that they do believe in gnomes, I simply smile and say 'that's nice.' But I don't go out of my way to let them know they are crazy. There is no point.

The answer to this riddle is that, I believe, those who do spend time making sure they get in their little digs are not truly atheists. By definition, they can't be (unless they are insane). They are, in reality, Misotheists. It’s clear by most of their exposition that this is the case. Further, atheism and Misotheism are mutually exclusive by definition.

It's okay to ruffle feathers. That's what forums are for.

But you're wrong - and here's where you are wrong. You don't have people coming up to you all the time telling you they believe in Gnomes. You don't have "in gnomes we trust" on your money. You don't have your elected officials swearing in on a book about gnomes, or starting their day by praying to gnomes. You don't have your highschool football teams starting their games by invoking their gnomes to give them safety. You don't have laws being passed based on compliance with Gnome regulations. You don't have people being denied basic human rights because gnomes don't like it. You don't have valid science being rejected in highschools because it's inconsistent with gnome theology. You don't have valid medical experiments losing their funding because it doesn't sit well with the gnomes. No one tries to enourage your children to pray to gnomes in the morning at school. etc.

You are so comfortable with being a christian that you don't realize how far you are stepping into atheist life.

About 1 in 4 people you know are athiest/agnostic. But they don't tell you that. Same way with me. I don't tell anyone I'm an atheist, because of the backlash. So on these boards I get a chance to vent. Otherwise, in my normal life, I am forced to bow my head when you pray before your meal, because people are going to talk if I don't.

Put differently, how many times a day do you hear about atheism? probably once a month in the real world. But I get to hear about Christianity at least once a day, in one aspect or another.

In real life, atheist are very quite, and Christians are very "in your face". Only in the anonymity of the internet do I get to tell you guys just how silly I think your gnome theories are. Out actions are reactions to the constant bombardment we get regarding your religion.

I hope that helps explain the situation better.

[calmdude]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

I know this response is going to ruffle a lot of feathers, but here goes:

The answer to your question is that, in my opinion, they don't. Just as you describe, there is no reason for true atheists to waste their time discussing something they believe doesn't exist. If you think about it, to do so would simply be stupidity. I don't believe in gnomes and I don't spend any time slamming them either. I just don't think about it. It never crosses my mind. If someone tells me that they do believe in gnomes, I simply smile and say 'that's nice.' But I don't go out of my way to let them know they are crazy. There is no point.

The answer to this riddle is that, I believe, those who do spend time making sure they get in their little digs are not truly atheists. By definition, they can't be (unless they are insane). They are, in reality, Misotheists. It’s clear by most of their exposition that this is the case. Further, atheism and Misotheism are mutually exclusive by definition.

I am not sure you actually tried to digest what has been said in the earlier posts before going on to expouse the gnome theory. What religious people do impacts atheists. Unlike gnone-believers, religious people are the vast majority. If gnome-believers were the vast majority and some tried to inject gnome-worship in schools, or told your kids they were hell-bound becuause of not believing in gnomes, etc etc (you get the picture), then you would also show a reaction. If you are a moderate religious person not hell-bent on fixing me or bent on injecting religion into the constitution, I have zero issues with you -almost all my friends are in this category.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill

It's okay to ruffle feathers. That's what forums are for.

But you're wrong - and here's where you are wrong. You don't have people coming up to you all the time telling you they believe in Gnomes. You don't have "in gnomes we trust" on your money. You don't have your elected officials swearing in on a book about gnomes, or starting their day by praying to gnomes. You don't have your highschool football teams starting their games by invoking their gnomes to give them safety. You don't have laws being passed based on compliance with Gnome regulations. You don't have people being denied basic human rights because gnomes don't like it. You don't have valid science being rejected in highschools because it's inconsistent with gnome theology. You don't have valid medical experiments losing their funding because it doesn't sit well with the gnomes. No one tries to enourage your children to pray to gnomes in the morning at school. etc.

You are so comfortable with being a christian that you don't realize how far you are stepping into atheist life.

About 1 in 4 people you know are athiest/agnostic. But they don't tell you that. Same way with me. I don't tell anyone I'm an atheist, because of the backlash. So on these boards I get a chance to vent. Otherwise, in my normal life, I am forced to bow my head when you pray before your meal, because people are going to talk if I don't.

Put differently, how many times a day do you hear about atheism? probably once a month in the real world. But I get to hear about Christianity at least once a day, in one aspect or another.

In real life, atheist are very quite, and Christians are very "in your face". Only in the anonymity of the internet do I get to tell you guys just how silly I think your gnome theories are. Out actions are reactions to the constant bombardment we get regarding your religion.

I hope that helps explain the situation better.

Great post!

I don't pray to anyone because I do not know that there is anyone to pray to. I understand what you are saying, though. I would also say that those christians who are 'in your face' really have no faith in their god because they are not following their own doctrine.


Personally, I have no problem with atheists, buddhists, christians, witches, or whatever else... as long as they do not try to pass off their beliefs as reality or try to force it upon me. None of them (including atheists) can know their belief is reality. I'm all for everyone believing anything they like without interference from others. And in this regard, at least, I can sympathize with you as an atheist, as you have a lot of folks out there trying to shove their religion down your throat. But at the same time, having atheism jammed down one's throat is no better.

Either way, forcing belief is wrong. I guess I'm a 'leave me alone' sort of person. I'm okay with whatever you do or believe, but when I'm having something jammed down my throat, I give it the middle finger (even if it's something I support: because I know others may not). So... I can understand your argument. But I also think this needs to be on a case-by-case basis. Not all religious people are in our faces, so not all of them should receive the finger.

[Bud235]

Why?

Because, religion is stupid and often harmful.

There is nothing remotely suggests there is something like a God (humanly non-human). Religions followers just want to believe it. They call is faith. That is stupid.

Religions often cause wars, mass murders, bigotry ... all the bad side of human societies. That is harmful.

Finally, religious people identify themselves by their own religions: born-again-Christians, born-again-Muslims, reincarnated-Buddhas ... an atheists would simply say I do not do that -- that's me. In other words, atheists treat religion as any other stupidities out there. There is no need to identify oneself as non-stupid.

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

if god is so unimportant to atheists, why does the atheist go to such great effort of defining themself in relation to something that does not exist?

God worshipers don't exist?

I think it is safe to say that atheist don't define themselves by the some deity but our differences with our fellow flesh and blood humans who do.

As for atheist putting a lot and energy and time arguing about the non-existence of god... good gracious, we could stay up posting 365/24/7 and we would never be able to approach the energy, time and verbosity of our prosthelytizing fellows, be they Christians or Muslims (everybody else seems to be able to keep their beliefs pretty much to themselves).

Perhaps if Christians and Muslims would spend more time practicing the tenets of their religion and left the rest of us the hell alone, we wouldn't have much to spend all that time and energy on.

[mercy777]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

if god is so unimportant to atheists, why does the atheist go to such great effort of defining themself in relation to something that does not exist?

i don't define myself by that which I am not. I don't run around saying, "HI i'm Tzaphkiel, I'm not a diabetic or a professional football player". I don't run around defining myself as "I don't live in Vermont" or "I don't speak Swahili"

If something is really not part of a person, and not important to a person, then they don't spend valuable time and energy and words and thoughts on that subject.

Yet atheists put forth a whole lot of energy, time, arguments, words, posts debating and talking about god, that which they claim is not important and not existent. Atheists who define themselves in that way, who keep talking about god are in relation with the topic of god. They are wrestling with god. They are in relationship with god.

Why do atheists spend so much time talking about something they claim is ludicrous and a waste of their time? Why is it so important to put forth that amount of energy on something that is a "not" to them?

I had asked an atheist this question not long ago and did not get a response to the question. Just an answer to everything not pertaining to the question.
I also have four brothers that are non-believers, not one of them can give an answer.
The most I have ever heard was, it is my freedom to believe what I want.
Not funny knowing they are in there own prison.
However, God is Mighty! And the one who believes the less of God was blessed with a Christian wife and his only son is a believer at the age of 16. He told his father, " I believe in Christ and I know it is forbidden of you to speak about Him in your house, but I will not stop, even if you kick me out. The son still lives at home. God is Mighty!

[MontanaGuy]

Tzaphkiel wrote:

Why do atheists spend so much time talking about something they claim is ludicrous and a waste of their time? Why is it so important to put forth that amount of energy on something that is a "not" to them?

Because it's good clean fun.

[mercy777]

Actually, Christians, preach the Word of God because they are commanded to, but if it is from the heart, they are more compelled to. They do not want to see lost souls. I know an atheist does not believe their soul is lost, however I am only giving you the answer to the reason we proclaim the gospel. From the heart, we love, and many times if it were possible we would give up our own souls for someone else to be saved. But this is not possible. Love just has it's way of never giving up.
In respect, an atheist never gives up believing in their freedom and a believer never gives up believing the atheists can be free. I myself do not take pride in a God belief. I take pride in God and who He is. And I had no religious upbringing. My parents never talked about God and never talked about Jesus. And I was not chosen out of some disaster. What world would believe their Creator would come as a Suffering Savior?

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by mercy777

Actually, Christians, preach the Word of God because they are commanded to,

Depends on the specific church. But yes, the more annoying ones feel they are commanded to jam their beliefs down everyone’s throat. The rest live a quiet life obeying the commandments they really do have... like love thy neighbor, and something about praying in the closet rather than flaunting it in the streets (can't remember the exact wording).

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by mercy777

I had asked an atheist this question not long ago and did not get a response to the question. Just an answer to everything not pertaining to the question.
I also have four brothers that are non-believers, not one of them can give an answer.
The most I have ever heard was, it is my freedom to believe what I want.
Not funny knowing they are in there own prison.
However, God is Mighty! And the one who believes the less of God was blessed with a Christian wife and his only son is a believer at the age of 16. He told his father, " I believe in Christ and I know it is forbidden of you to speak about Him in your house, but I will not stop, even if you kick me out. The son still lives at home. God is Mighty!

If one isn't an LEO but frequents a cop bar, one doesn't identify one's self as a cop, one identifies one's self as a non-cop.

I have yet to see an atheist walking down the street badgering people to be atheists, thumping upon and shouting quotes from a science book. I have yet to meet an atheist who wears their symbology in gold around thier necks and has plaques of Einstien on their desk.

However, when a Christian brings up their religion, like a non-cop in a cop bar, an atheist will of course identify themselves as an atheist.