If Satan Is A Fallen Angel Then What Are Demons?

[Reads2MUCH]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

It's said that satan was an angel at some point in the past until he had some serious behavioral issues and God had to throw him out. Now it seems that satan has a larger force of evil entities than just himself and that would include demons and possibly other forces of evil. I've never heard of angels having any subordinates or lesser beings who report directly to them so I'm wondering where satan got his helpers. It almost seems like satan is considered to be an equal of God in the sense that one represents good and the other represents evil. So a common angel gets kicked out of heaven but then goes on to become satan. It appears like he's getting a sort of promotion because now he's the top ranking entity who's opposing God and he even has an army of demonic forces to back him up. Can anyone explain this to me?

Satan was also supposed to be far more than just a normal angel. He was supposed to have been the most beautiful angel in all of heaven. Known as the morning star, he was God's most beloved angel. But his pride led him to sin the ultimate sin, to try and place himself in the place of God. So he and a third of God's angels were cast out of heaven. And that's where the servants came from. If anyone else has already covered this I am sorry but I didn't have time to read the entire thread.

[cncracer]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

Johnrex62, I like what you said about "I wasn't consulted at the time of creation". It reminds me of God's answers to Job, in the book of Job.

I am rather amazed at all the efforts to pick the bible to pieces. I never knew that it was being done until I came on this forum. I am quite content with it being the word of God. His ways are so much higher than mine, and His thoughts are also so much higher than mine.

Marianinark,
It is not picking the bible apart, it trying to find any validly in it.
I and many others have seen it as the basis used to justify the 2000 years of religious persecutions and millions of deaths.

The appearance that the bible uses combinations of ancient sun religions to set the base of the Christian religion is without question. The stories are word for word and include the biblical miracles, virgin births, healing the sick, raising the dead, being killed and raised from death on the third day all taken from ancient mythologies.
Look for yourself they are all there and more.

If we are dealing with ancient religions and using this as a base to justify actions which harm and limit humanity, than we need to back up and if needed remove it from any position of power or authority. This is why we look, study and as you say pick each word apart. Many see the problem, and hope to help others to see it as well.

I know from your post you are a religious person, and I don’t desire to hurt your, but hopefully have you open your eyes to a view beyond your comfort zone, and into what I see as a undeniable truth. Just as your religion will say “the truth will set you free”. It will also make you look with distaste to many organizations who continue to harm millions with what can only be seen as false teachings.

I have evolved to a non believer, and now find it hard to understand how people can allow the religious perpetrators to continue a path filled with prejudice, crimes, and deaths. If the bible is nothing more than a book written by man, and used to control the masses by pseudo political organizations, than how, as a good person or a responsible civilization can we allow it to continue to control and abuse millions?

[devotee]

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim: In the Name of The Only GOD, The Beneficent, The Merciful. As salaamu alaikum: The Peace Be Upon You. To answer MontanaGuy, who stated:

If Satan Is A Fallen Angel Then What Are Demons?
It's said that satan was an angel at some point in the past until he had some serious behavioral issues and God had to throw him out. Now it seems that satan has a larger force of evil entities than just himself and that would include demons and possibly other forces of evil. I've never heard of angels having any subordinates or lesser beings who report directly to them so I'm wondering where satan got his helpers. It almost seems like satan is considered to be an equal of God in the sense that one represents good and the other represents evil. So a common angel gets kicked out of heaven but then goes on to become satan. It appears like he's getting a sort of promotion because now he's the top ranking entity who's opposing God and he even has an army of demonic forces to back him up. Can anyone explain this to me?

Reply:
Lucifer [Satan, a jinn] was at one time the head of the angels. I have posted herewith some of the discourses from Barnabas' gospel, along with verses from The Noble Qur'an, to give a broader picture of what actually occurred.


002.035 وَقُلْنَا يَا آدَمُ اسْكُنْ أَنْتَ وَزَوْجُكَ الْجَنَّةَ وَكُلا مِنْهَا رَغَدًا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمَا وَلا تَقْرَبَا هَذِهِ الشَّجَرَةَ فَتَكُونَا مِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ
002.035 We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."

002.036 فَأَزَلَّهُمَا الشَّيْطَانُ عَنْهَا فَأَخْرَجَهُمَا مِمَّا كَانَا فِيهِ وَقُلْنَا اهْبِطُوا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ وَلَكُمْ فِي الأرْضِ مُسْتَقَرٌّ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَى حِينٍ
002.036 Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."

002.037 فَتَلَقَّى آدَمُ مِنْ رَبِّهِ كَلِمَاتٍ فَتَابَ عَلَيْهِ إِنَّهُ هُوَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ
002.037 Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

002.038 قُلْنَا اهْبِطُوا مِنْهَا جَمِيعًا فَإِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُمْ مِنِّي هُدًى فَمَنْ تَبِعَ هُدَايَ فَلا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
002.038 We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

002.039 وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَكَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا أُولَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ
002.039 "But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."
Al-Qur'an, 002.035-039 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]) Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9



Chapter 12
"Blessed be the holy name of God, who created the angels that they might serve him. And blessed be God, who punished and reprobated Satan and his followers, who would not reverence him whom God willeth to be reverenced."


Chapter 34
'Truly I say to you, that Satan became not reprobate for any other sin than for his pride. Even as says the prophet Isaiah;, reproaching him with these words: "How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, that were the beauty of the angels, and did shine like the dawn: truly to earth is fallen your pride!"


Chapter 35
Jesus departed from Jerusalem, and went to the desert beyond Jordan: and his disciples that were seated round him said to Jesus: "O master, tell us how Satan fell through pride, for we have understood that he fell through disobedience, and because he always tempts man to do evil."

Jesus answered: "God having created a mass of earth, and having left it for twenty-five thousand years without doing aught else; Satan, who was as it were priest and head of the angels, by the great understanding that he possessed, knew that God of that mass of earth was to take one hundred and forty and four thousand signed with the mark of prophecy, and the Messenger of God, the soul of which messenger he had created sixty thousand years before aught else;. Therefore, being indignant, he instigated the angels, saying: "Look you, one day God shall will that this earth be revered by us. Wherefore consider that we are spirit, and therefore it is not fitting so to do." Many therefore forsook God. Whereupon said God, one day when all the angels were assembled: "Let each one that holds me for his lord straightway do reverence to this earth."

They that loved God bowed themselves, but Satan, with them that were of his mind, said: "O Lord, we are spirit, and therefore it is not just that we should do reverence to this clay;." Having said this, Satan became horrid and of fearsome look, and his followers became hideous; because for their rebellion God took away from them the beauty wherewith he had endued them in creating them. Whereat the holy angels, when, lifting their heads, they saw how terrible a monster Satan ;had become, and his followers, cast down their face to earth in fear. Then said Satan: "O Lord, you have unjustly made me hideous, but I am content thereat, because I desire to annul all that you shall do. And the other devils said: "Calf him not Lord, O Lucifer;, for you are Lord."

Then said God to the followers of Satan: "Repent you, and recognize me as God, your creator." They answered: "We repent of having done you any reverence, for that you are not just; but Satan is just. Then said God: "Depart from me, O you cursed, for I have no mercy on you." And in his departing Satan spat up that mass of earth, and that spittle the angel Gabriel lifted up with some earth, so that therefore now man has the navel in his belly." The Gospel of Barnabas See also Chapter 51 >>

Chapter Index


Wassalaam. devotee

[CTR36]

Originally Posted by satanoid

So, what motivates satan to harm humanity?
Jealousy?
If he is still angry with god, wouldn't he try to make hell as appealing as possible? Filled with carnal pleasures and delights, doing his best to woo as many souls as possible to his domain?

Why would satan continue to serve god by punishing people who disobey god?

Satan wanted to have God's Glory. He wanted us to worship him as we worship our Heavenly Father. That's why he got cast out. He, unlike our Heavenly Father, does not give us the option of free agency or free will.
He, Satan, FORCES us to do his will. Satan is very crafty. He makes it appear as though you will have fun and have a great life by worshipping him. For example drug addiction. He makes it very appealing by making the user feel a "high or sense of peace" (this is what I have heard addicts describe it as) It is a fake sense of peace. Once Satan has the addict in his clutches, the addict feels like he has no free will. He feels like he cannot stop. He is surrendering his life to the drug, a substance that will destroy him and his family. This is Satan's motivation. The destruction of families. Think about it..Heavenly Father's central plan involves the family. If Satan attacks and destroys families, it brings him satisfaction.
Satan is not obeying God by punishing them. Satan is following his own plan to destroy as many souls as possible by enslaving them with drug addiction, alcoholism, pornography addiction, criminal activity, etc. Think about it..all these things lead to the demise of the family. All of these and more begin with Satan painting a "pretty picture" of wealth, fake sense of peace, power, etc.
The only peace we can obtain is by following the Savior.I speak from experience. I asked God to prove to me he was real and HE did.
Now I don't condone anyone testing GOD...but I was an atheist at the time and going thru a VERY rough time in my life. Boy did HE listen to me and answer my question. And to tell you the truth even after HE proved it to me I still continued on my path of self destruction. It wasn't until 8 years later that I truly accepted Jesus as my Savior. My life hasn't been the same since. I now know REAL peace. The peace that only HE can give me.

[johnrex62]

Originally Posted by cncracer

[color=black][font=Verdana]
I and many others have seen it as the basis used to justify the 2000 years of religious persecutions and millions of deaths.

Man does not require christianity to base it's persecutions upon. It has used countless other religions in addition to christianity both as authorization for and as targets of hate and maliciousness. Christianity is only one of the larger surviving modern religions that has a recent history of such persecutions in our collective memories. How many other eras of such abuse based on a religion or in retaliation for a religion has there been in the history of man that we have forgotten? The bible and Jesus are not the source for this type of behavior, only a convenient focal point for those who are already so motivated.

Originally Posted by cncracer

I have evolved to a non believer, and now find it hard to understand how people can allow the religious perpetrators to continue a path filled with prejudice, crimes, and deaths. If the bible is nothing more than a book written by man, and used to control the masses by pseudo political organizations, than how, as a good person or a responsible civilization can we allow it to continue to control and abuse millions?

We permit it to continue because we cannot prevent people from twisting dogmas to fit their intents and misusing the power that comes from common belief by directing the blind devotion to an unintended action. People can be deceived and confused. They can be tricked and lied to. People with evil intentions can hijack a group of casual believers and in sufficent numbers can pull others into the delusion.

Nobody intentionally allows someone else to subvert their beliefs or dreams. It happens through misinformation and manipulation. Much like our political environment. Did you elect Bush specifically to attack Irag? I certainly did not elect him to grow our government as he did. The point is that he followed his beliefs as to what was the most expedient way to accomplish his goals and made compromises in his policies to do this. Many believers see an individual they feel can lead them to something they need and are willing to make compromises to them to follow that course. This has lead to such things as Crusades and Inquisitions. While the stated principal goals seem laudable, the execution is certainly not and that is due to methods accepted as compromise to assure the lofty goals.

The mass murders in the Soviet Union post WWII were not bible based. The genocides in Africa during the last century were not bible based. Many of our greatest offenses against mankind have had nothing to do with christian zealotry, so it is less than reasonable to pin this aspect of man's nature on religion and christianity specifically as the source of the evil.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by johnrex62

The mass murders in the Soviet Union post WWII were not bible based. The genocides in Africa during the last century were not bible based. Many of our greatest offenses against mankind have had nothing to do with christian zealotry, so it is less than reasonable to pin this aspect of man's nature on religion and christianity specifically as the source of the evil.

The thing is that the mass murders were still committed with zealotry. The fanatics either obey blindly, or because they simply wanted to survive.
Religion, for better or worse, can incite such evil zealotry and still believe that they are doing God's work (are being good).

[Kpt2007]

i dont have a hard time believing it cause i know that God says in 2 Corinthians 4:18 "so fix our eyes on not what is seen, but what is unseen, for what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." meaning everything that is seen, we wont have forever, cause when we die our body doesnt go up to heaven our spirit does, and what is unseen is the spirit world, that God allows us to tune into if we believe in him and everything he does and has made. Humans in general have a hard time believing because its so hard to wrap our heads around what is unseen, but God says let my mysteries be my mysteries. but i promise once you let go and quit trying to control your life and let God have it, everything becomes so much easier and you have so much joy. All God asks of us is to have a relationship with him, love him and let him love on you, I promise its the best feeling and most rewarding relationship ever. hope this helps

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

Thanks for your responses but I do find all of this to be very far fetched. Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from? And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man? I would think that in order to have a devil to tempt Adam and Eve that all of this would have already occurred.
Do any of you who are believers have a hard time accepting a story like this when you really sit down and think about it? For myself, it's completely outside of the realm of reality and I couldn't imagine just accepting it at face value. This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.

It is my belief that God the Father created/organized billions of spirit children who then lived and interacted with Him and each other for perhaps aeons of time as we commonly think of time. Those spirit children are the spirit bodies or "soul" that inhabit our physical bodies when we are having our earthly experience.

Our Heavenly Parent called a great council in heaven and there proposed a Plan of Happiness or Plan of Salvation whereby we could go to an earth like this one, get a physical body that would eventually be resurrected like His, and encounter an environment where we would learn opposites, good and evil, light and darkness, health and sickness etc. and having forgotten our premortal life would have to make choices, some of those choices bearing eternal consequences.

That plan, because all of us would sin and none could redeem him/herself from sin and therefore could never return to Him, required that an atonement be offered. The brother we know best today by the name "Jesus Christ" who was Father's firstborn in the spirit offered to be the Redeemer. Another brother, a "son of the morning" then called Lucifer offered a different plan, a plan that would force everyone back to heaven, and he would take the glory.

Father rejected Lucifer's plan, a war of words resulted and one third of our spirit brothers and sisters followed Lucifer. They were all cast out of heaven to this earth where they provide the necessary opposition so we can experience both good and evil and choose of our own free will which one to follow.

So, Satan (as he is now known) and the one third of Father's children who followed him have as their objective making all of God's children as miserable as themselves, for they will never be able to get a physical body, and will never be able to return to live in heaven.

That's how I understand that it played out.


The good news from that is that everyone of us on this earth today was obedient in our premortal life, we all accepted Heavenly Father's Plan, we all accepted Jesus as our Redeemer.

The other news is that we whose turn it is on this planet today are now in our 'second estate'. We are being tried and tested, as we were earlier in our spirit bodies, to see if we will be obedient to Father while under the 'veil' of forgetting our preexistent life.

We are each writing the rest of our story...


More information on our premortal lives:

http://www.mormonfortress.com/premort1.html

[artsyguy]

Demons are Satan's babies. He gave birth to them.