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The photos I have been looking at, are not fuzzy at all. And all six individuals have staked their reputations on those photos, along with Turkish officials, and others. And from where I'm standing, there is much more evidence for the Ark on Ararat, then some of the pet theories pushed by todays science. And some may not of followed the proper procedures. Yet that should not dismiss what was found up there. Even Dr. Price, who said the wood was planted, did not have a permit to climb Mt. Ararat. So what? You are majoring in the minors. As if the most important thing to you, is formal applications, and getting the proper permission from the authorities. Were talking about some small samples of wood. I really doubt that anyone would of thought much about getting anykind of formal application for something so small. Maybe in the future when kids pick up sea shells in another country, they will have to get formal applications before they bring them home. The Turkish authorities know and respect NAMI, and in the future, they will both be active partners in this discovery.
Your usual sidestepping of the issues is rather amusing but it's not convincing nor does it lend any credibility to your opinions. It's only showing your ignorance and willful disregard about the subject.
Until the release of the most recent photos, the vast majority of previous photos were indeed fuzzy or so distant it's impossible to tell exactly what was being shown. However, you were quite convinced it was all as clear as sunny day, even though it would appear you're only seeing what you want to believe, even if it turns out to be something completely different. The same holds true now. In other words, you seem to have a tendancy to jump the gun before any real facts are determined.
With regard to the most recent images, there's no way at the moment to determine the authenticity or exactly where the images were taken. All we have are the claims of NAMI. For all we know, they could just as easily be photos of an icy meat locker somewhere in China. Who knows where the photos were taken?
Are you now saying that an actual piece of Noah's Ark is no more significant than a seashell? LOL! There's a vastly greater difference between seashells and what's being claimed to be artifacts from what would be a profound historical relic. Even if it turns out to be some historical relic that isn't Noah's Ark, such relics within the borders of the country would most likely be automatically subject to protection and preservation. The claim of taking small pieces of a potential relic out of the country would need authorization to do so in order to ensure integrity of a particular archeological site. When people start taking bits and pieces from relics, and sneak them out of the country, it amounts to vandalism and potential destruction of a national treasure. Sure, in the past, mummies, statues, frescos, etc., have been taken from architectural sites around the world without obtaining permission. It still happens today by money-hungry treasure hunters looking for ancient relics to sell through the Black Market to various collectors. And of course, some 'treasures' are indeed nothing more than fakes, well made perhaps, but still fakes. Times have changed my friend.
It doesn't matter if the artifacts claimed by NAMI are no larger than slivers. Evidently, you've never spent any time in other countries around the world. Penalties for removing historical artifacts from a country without authorization can result in being blacklisted by a country from ever being granted another visa to being fined to imprisonment.
Let me give you an example. I've spent a great deal of time in SE Asia, in particular, Thailand. Thailand has a number of significant historical ruins around the country. You can find large numbers of brick piles scattered all over the place. These piles belonged to various buildings, including temples, chedis and royal palaces. Just looking at a pile it's easy to think it's just a pile of abandoned rubbish. But that's not how the country sees it. They're considered a part of their nation's history. Removing even so much as a fragment can spell big trouble for an individual taking such items out of the country. And penalties are not just limited to foreigners. There have been instances where Thai citizens (interested in money) have taken heads of statues, artistic sections of buildings, etc., and have sold them abroad. Authorized archeologists sometimes even locate real valuable treasures such as jewelry of solid gold and precious gemstones. But local site robbers can face stiff penalties. That's not to say that tourists don't pick up small fragments and put them in their pocket to take home as souvenirs. Sometimes they do. But if they're ever caught at it, it can potentially mean a lot more trouble than they were counting on.
If the relics taken out of Turkey by NAMI are indeed genuine relics, whether Noah's Ark or anything else, and had no legal authorization to do so, then NAMI is at risk of having tread in deeper water than they assumed. If nothing else, breaking off a piece of an historical relic is irresponsible. Any legitimate archeological dig site goes through great pains to carefully map the exact location of each and every item. Sounds to me like NAMI's claim is a piece or pieces were broken off with no regard for the integrity of the find simply to examine the piece(s) out of the country. Why not turn the pieces over to the Turkish authorities (at the national level) to have them determine what to do with the artifacts? It might be Turkish authorities would've grant permission to have them examined in Hong Kong. Instead though, NAMI's descriptions of both the site and the artifacts shows a gross lack of expertise on their part.
Of course the other possibility is that NAMI's claims are a hoax. If it is a hoax, and Turkish authorities were to determine that to be the case, NAMI is still in hot water for dragging authorities around on a wild goose chase. Either way, NAMI has completely screwed up from the get-go. If the 'artifacts' that NAMI claims to have taken out of the country are nothing more than worthless rocks, they could still find themselves in deep doo-doo with Turkish authorities simply because of the hassle they've created. If Turkey decided to refuse granting them any future visas because of it, then NAMI has only dug themselves into a hole since they'd no longer be able to prowl around the mountain (or the country) in the future. The world is not always as simple as you seem imagine it to be.
"Your usual sidestepping of the issues is rather amusing but it's not convincing nor does it lend any credibility to your opinions. It's only showing your ignorance and willful disregard about the subject.
The world is not always as simple as you seem imagine it to be."
Factsschmacts, huh? Fact is, anything "confirmed" by NAMI so far is, well.... "unconfirmed".
As well, the Turkish Authorities only say they are "investigating it", so they can't "confirm" anything either. Neither can that lone, phantom scientist. Whoever he is.
Just wanted to get those parts straight. Nobody's ignorin' nuttin' here! Some however, are just makin' it up as they go though.
Soooo..... what's that useful ACRONYM again? Oh yeah:
GORE™
________________________________________
Author's Humble Correction: RE: my prior attribute to Gplex. Nope. Sorry: it was Pan Terra. Thx!
"Believing is seeing"™ Pan Terra; 2010
Turkish Authorities only say they are investigating?
"A panel of experts, comprising (TURKISH AUTHORITIES), veteran mountaineers, archaelolgists, geologists, and members of Hong Kong-based Noah's Ark Ministries International, also displayed an almost one-metre-long peice of petrified wood before the media and specially invited international experts."
Without question riflemen, the Turkish Authorities are a big part of the discovery up on Mt. Ararat. Why are you trying to suggest that somehow the Turkish Authorities are seperated from the actual discovery? The NAMI, and the Turkish authorities are working together as a team. And that same panel stated that Applied Geoscience Center of the Department of Earth Sciences, University of Hong Kong, identified the object as a petrified wooden structure.
It appears to me riflemen, that you only pick and choose what you want to believe, and ignore what is actually being stated. Why is that?
Your usual sidestepping of the issues is rather amusing but it's not convincing nor does it lend any credibility to your opinions. It's only showing your ignorance and willful disregard about the subject.
Until the release of the most recent photos, the vast majority of previous photos were indeed fuzzy or so distant it's impossible to tell exactly what was being shown. However, you were quite convinced it was all as clear as sunny day, even though it would appear you're only seeing what you want to believe, even if it turns out to be something completely different. The same holds true now. In other words, you seem to have a tendancy to jump the gun before any real facts are determined.
With regard to the most recent images, there's no way at the moment to determine the authenticity or exactly where the images were taken. All we have are the claims of NAMI. For all we know, they could just as easily be photos of an icy meat locker somewhere in China. Who knows where the photos were taken?
Are you now saying that an actual piece of Noah's Ark is no more significant than a seashell? LOL! There's a vastly greater difference between seashells and what's being claimed to be artifacts from what would be a profound historical relic. Even if it turns out to be some historical relic that isn't Noah's Ark, such relics within the borders of the country would most likely be automatically subject to protection and preservation. The claim of taking small pieces of a potential relic out of the country would need authorization to do so in order to ensure integrity of a particular archeological site. When people start taking bits and pieces from relics, and sneak them out of the country, it amounts to vandalism and potential destruction of a national treasure. Sure, in the past, mummies, statues, frescos, etc., have been taken from architectural sites around the world without obtaining permission. It still happens today by money-hungry treasure hunters looking for ancient relics to sell through the Black Market to various collectors. And of course, some 'treasures' are indeed nothing more than fakes, well made perhaps, but still fakes. Times have changed my friend.
It doesn't matter if the artifacts claimed by NAMI are no larger than slivers. Evidently, you've never spent any time in other countries around the world. Penalties for removing historical artifacts from a country without authorization can result in being blacklisted by a country from ever being granted another visa to being fined to imprisonment.
Let me give you an example. I've spent a great deal of time in SE Asia, in particular, Thailand. Thailand has a number of significant historical ruins around the country. You can find large numbers of brick piles scattered all over the place. These piles belonged to various buildings, including temples, chedis and royal palaces. Just looking at a pile it's easy to think it's just a pile of abandoned rubbish. But that's not how the country sees it. They're considered a part of their nation's history. Removing even so much as a fragment can spell big trouble for an individual taking such items out of the country. And penalties are not just limited to foreigners. There have been instances where Thai citizens (interested in money) have taken heads of statues, artistic sections of buildings, etc., and have sold them abroad. Authorized archeologists sometimes even locate real valuable treasures such as jewelry of solid gold and precious gemstones. But local site robbers can face stiff penalties. That's not to say that tourists don't pick up small fragments and put them in their pocket to take home as souvenirs. Sometimes they do. But if they're ever caught at it, it can potentially mean a lot more trouble than they were counting on.
If the relics taken out of Turkey by NAMI are indeed genuine relics, whether Noah's Ark or anything else, and had no legal authorization to do so, then NAMI is at risk of having tread in deeper water than they assumed. If nothing else, breaking off a piece of an historical relic is irresponsible. Any legitimate archeological dig site goes through great pains to carefully map the exact location of each and every item. Sounds to me like NAMI's claim is a piece or pieces were broken off with no regard for the integrity of the find simply to examine the piece(s) out of the country. Why not turn the pieces over to the Turkish authorities (at the national level) to have them determine what to do with the artifacts? It might be Turkish authorities would've grant permission to have them examined in Hong Kong. Instead though, NAMI's descriptions of both the site and the artifacts shows a gross lack of expertise on their part.
Of course the other possibility is that NAMI's claims are a hoax. If it is a hoax, and Turkish authorities were to determine that to be the case, NAMI is still in hot water for dragging authorities around on a wild goose chase. Either way, NAMI has completely screwed up from the get-go. If the 'artifacts' that NAMI claims to have taken out of the country are nothing more than worthless rocks, they could still find themselves in deep doo-doo with Turkish authorities simply because of the hassle they've created. If Turkey decided to refuse granting them any future visas because of it, then NAMI has only dug themselves into a hole since they'd no longer be able to prowl around the mountain (or the country) in the future. The world is not always as simple as you seem imagine it to be.
Well, why would you say all the photos were fuzzy, when you knew there were photos out there that were very clear? I find that amusing. And we have more then the claims of the NAMI, because the Turkish Authorities are also part of this discovery. And they serve on the same panel as the NAMI, as the link below points out. And those same Turkish authorities have expressed a great willingness to help the NAMI in anyway they can. So you need not worry about the NAMI being banned from the site in question.
Great link, Tom! Publication Date: January, 2008. Up-to-date, yup!
I did note this comment from a reader, apparently from an actual participant at the "Ark discovery site", following the short non-descript article (We'd better get him labeled a liar as soon as possible, huh?):
"The structure at this side is not wood some kind of sand stone. I had been on it, filmed it and took a piece by myself to show it around. Geologists said that it is sand stone. Though it looked really old piece of wood to me. I keep it as paper weight.
Besides; approval of Turkish gov. means nothing, they just want more Tourists. Altough the site has Turkish govermental road signs indicating "Noahs Ark this Way", the gov. itself has not officially accepted the place. I have asked ministry of culture of Turkey, tourism as well as others, they all said that officially, there is no noahs ark."
Next: your comment, as follows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by C34
And we have more then the claims of the NAMI, because the Turkish Authorities are also part of this discovery. And they serve on the same panel as the NAMI, as the link below points out.
Nope! The Turkish Authorities are simply investigating this claim (not yet a discovery...) as well as illegal materials removal. In January of 2008 they most certainly were not a part of anything; they'd been left out!
And as for "panel", which "panel"? I must have mis-read your link. No mention of any "panel".
Oh I see! You mean when some guys pull up a table and some chairs, add a microphone and some Kleig lights, and make unsupported claims and appeals for money? Is that a "panel"?
__________________________________________________ ________
Funny! Old, and funny. You're getting better at this, Tom! I wonder what tomorrow will bring????
Just an overall commentary on the ongoing solitary defense of this hoax:
This is now, to me, like a daily game of philosophical "Wack-a-Mole", in which the nonsense quotes, outrageous claims, outright lies and mis-information keep popping up, ripe to be "wacked".
Trouble for the defender is that the "moles" are......v........e..............r..................r....................y ....slow; way too easy to "wack". Unfortunately, Tom's strategy is to simply pop them back up again, as though their earlier "outing" as flaming mis-information means nothing to him.
Well, it's fun while it lasts. Someone's gonna pull the plug on this NAMI game soon enough.
Well, why would you say all the photos were fuzzy, when you knew there were photos out there that were very clear? I find that amusing. And we have more then the claims of the NAMI, because the Turkish Authorities are also part of this discovery. And they serve on the same panel as the NAMI, as the link below points out. And those same Turkish authorities have expressed a great willingness to help the NAMI in anyway they can. So you need not worry about the NAMI being banned from the site in question.
Odd, isn't it, that NightBazaar brought up all those valid, thoughtful and credible points, very readable, logical and thought-provoking, and you just ignore them all. There's not a skeptical bone in your body, obviously. But then, in order to deflect, you focus in on just one comment about out-of-focus pictures.
Which, BTW, they most certainly were. Or very poorly staged and positioned, with no scientific standards for documentation, and no reference measurement device (a ruler or hand or coin or...) included. Just an overall poor quality production. That first Tourista-quality video simply showed them clambering up icy slopes, loading baggage and bottled water into a van and laughing around the campfire at night.
Compelling to say the least. But "scientific"?????
Anyhow, kudos to NightBazaar on his very succinct and insightful review. You, obviously, missed all his points. On purpose?
I also clearly see the tag link right inside your link. Sorta makes the larger point about Turkey's true interests, huh?
Why Should Everyone At Least Once Visit Armenia
There are numerous impressive and memorable sites in Armenia. However, every single visitor will forever remember the most majestic and the noblest scene in the world, the fabulous view of Holy Mt. Ararat.
Every Christian must see the Ararat at least once in his life. The Bible says about this mountain: “And on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark comes to rest on the mountains of Ararat.” (Genesis, 8:4). During the great flood, after floating on waters for 150 days, the Noah’s ark stopped on Mount Ararat. And on this very day, the human race was granted a second birth in Armenia: on Mount Ararat. And this very fact makes both Ararat and Armenia a holy place.
I believe what you describe as facts, is based on hearsay. The facts I am speaking about, have been confirmed by Turkish authorities, scientist, and the NAMI. It appears to me, you are ignoring that.
They couldn't be anymore Unconfirmed than they are, see just because these people that so called investigated it " confirm"it, in no way actually Confirms it.
Great link, Tom! Publication Date: January, 2008. Up-to-date, yup!
I did note this comment from a reader, apparently from an actual participant at the "Ark discovery site", following the short non-descript article (We'd better get him labeled a liar as soon as possible, huh?):
"The structure at this side is not wood some kind of sand stone. I had been on it, filmed it and took a piece by myself to show it around. Geologists said that it is sand stone. Though it looked really old piece of wood to me. I keep it as paper weight.
Besides; approval of Turkish gov. means nothing, they just want more Tourists. Altough the site has Turkish govermental road signs indicating "Noahs Ark this Way", the gov. itself has not officially accepted the place. I have asked ministry of culture of Turkey, tourism as well as others, they all said that officially, there is no noahs ark."
Next: your comment, as follows:
Nope! The Turkish Authorities are simply investigating this claim (not yet a discovery...) as well as illegal materials removal. In January of 2008 they most certainly were not a part of anything; they'd been left out!
And as for "panel", which "panel"? I must have mis-read your link. No mention of any "panel".
Oh I see! You mean when some guys pull up a table and some chairs, add a microphone and some Kleig lights, and make unsupported claims and appeals for money? Is that a "panel"?
__________________________________________________ ________
Funny! Old, and funny. You're getting better at this, Tom! I wonder what tomorrow will bring????
You know riflemen, if your going to make these bland statements, could you at least supply a link, so the rest of us could know what your talking about?
"The structure at this side is not wood some kind of sand stone?"
I don't think that comment even came from the same place where the NAMI had been. And I do believe the findings of the Applied Geoscience Center of the Department of Earth Sciences, University of Hong Kong. And I believe them, much more than I believe your unnamed source, which was given to us without a link to consider.
Turkish authorities are simply investigating?Moderator cut: Inappropriate
TURKISH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, MR. MURAT GUVEN, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF AGRI PROVINCE, MR. MUHSIN BULUT, CULTURAL MINISTRIES DIRECTOR OF AGRI PROVINCE AND MR. IBRAHIM SAHIN, DISTRICT SECRETARY OF DOGUBAYAYAZIT CITY APPRECIATED THE EFFORT PUT FORWARD BY THE SEARCH TEAM AND THANKED THEM FOR THE (DISCOVERY OF NOAH'S ARK).
It appears they have already reached an opinon riflemen. And according to the link below, the government officials believe the only probable explanation for such a structure high up on Mt. Ararat, is NOAH'S ARK.
You really appear to me, to be a person in such deep denial, that you create your own storyline. And your storyline, does not appear to square with the facts riflemen. I believe some of the facts you present are not even related to the NAMI findings. And I believe you ignore any input from Turkish authorities, and from other scientist. And I believe you do this, in order to dismiss them. And it also appears to me, you want to blame only the NAMI for an unfounded discovery, as if they were the only ones involved. When you ignore the full story, and filter out facts that you do not want to consider. You find yourself left with something, which does not even represent reality riflemen.
You say there was no mention of any panel?
PLEASE READ THE LINK BELOW RIFLEMEN.
"A panel of experts, comprising Turkish authorities, veteran mountaineers, archaelolgist, geologist and members of Hong Kong-based Noah's Ark Ministries International, also displayed an almost one-metre-long peice of petrified wood before the media and specially invited international experts."
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Thanks, NB.
"Noah's Ark This Way!"
Bing! Bing! Bingbingbing!!!!!
