Evidence for "God consciousness" (theology, about, against, history)

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

Fallacy: Appeal to Popularity

The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:

1. Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
2. Therefore X is true.

Yeah...I've heard and seen all that logi-babble before a million times. It doesn't count for squat when push comes to shove.

DIG THIS:::::Popular majority may not rule in the laboratory...but real life isn't a lab...and in real life---popular majority IS KING.

Try living in real, actual, society...where hardly anything is objective...and you don't need "proof"...you just need to have the most "mojo".

You want to know how it "REALLY IS"?-----I am AAAAAD POOOOOOPULUUUUUUM....My offense is impetuous, my defense impregnable...What I say, IIIIIIIS LAWWWWWWW!!!!!!.

THAT'S the way it works in real life...majority RULES. For example--Science has proven life begins at conception, everything after that is just further development of the same life...logically then, abortion is the willful taking of a life (murder)...but the MAJORITY of the Supreme Court Justices ruling on Roe VS Wade didn't think that way...so guess what?...I live in a world where I have to endure the killing of almost a million babies a week...and according to the law, that's just fine. Nice huh?

The majority has it all over logic and reason...when it comes to what RULES! And THAT'S what's real! Get hip to that...you'll be a lot better off.

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

Yeah...I've heard and seen all that logi-babble before a million times. It doesn't count for squat when push comes to shove.

DIG THIS:::::Popular majority may not rule in the laboratory...but real life isn't a lab...and in real life---popular majority IS KING.

Try living in real, actual, society...where hardly anything is objective...and you don't need "proof"...you just need to have the most "mojo".

You want to know how it "REALLY IS"?-----I am AAAAAD POOOOOOPULUUUUUUM....My offense is impetuous, my defense impregnable...What I say, IIIIIIIS LAWWWWWWW!!!!!!.

THAT'S the way it works in real life...majority RULES. For example--Science has proven life begins at conception, everything after that is just further development of the same life...logically then, abortion is the willful taking of a life (murder)...but the MAJORITY of the Supreme Court Justices ruling on Roe VS Wade didn't think that way...so guess what?...I live in a world where I have to endure the killing of almost a million babies a week...and according to the law, that's just fine. Nice huh?

The majority has it all over logic and reason...when it comes to what RULES! And THAT'S what's real! Get hip to that...you'll be a lot better off.

Utter nonsense. You don't use a fallacy as evidence for the truth or falsehood of a statement.

Besides, the numbers are not in your favor if you look at the actual beliefs people have - can I assume you are a christian? Only one third (yes, less than half) of the world's population is christian. A minority? And if you subscribe to Mystic's panentheism, then you are a much smaller minority. You 'disprove' your own beliefs if you think ad populum is valid proof.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

Universal field theory, so far as i can see is a fine - sounding term used by the crypto theist pseudo - scientists dabbling in the muddy waters of quantum mechanics to gaps for god.

Core - Energy Fields: Universal, Human, Earth and All Forms of Life

This is no more than pointing to comets and saying 'sign of God' or hearing voices in the head and saying 'Angels'.

Perhaps you (like old_cold) need a new pair of eyeglasses to aid your vision. The site also is NOT what I am referring to. Try Googling Quantum field theories, Loop Quantum Gravity or String theory.

It's a rich field for the bamboozler and our mate mystic has done a fine job of bamboozlement and also a sweet job of avoiding wising you up 'I'm not here to educate you..'

I gott admit mystic, you're good. But it's no more than a theist version of the mysterious cultist's 'Spiritual Energy'.

This is such a pervasive belief of yours about my motives . . . one wonders about your own motivations on this issue. I have no desire to bamboozle anyone and I am too old to play games with things that I sincerely believe. I am sharing and clarifying . . period.

[SoCalAngel2009]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

Don't go confusing a 'Soul' with problem solving or communication skills. I can't fly, or change my colour or peel a banana with my feet. Doesn't make them animals better than me or mean they have some spiritual Thing I don't. The point about a soul is not that it makes us somehow better at problem - solving or complex communication, but it is supposedly something of us that survives after death. And that is something the existence of which is not yet demonstrated with any conviction.

I do speak for myself when I accept that I am an animal, a primate and a decendant through a line of lice -infested frights and slimy tailed things to a bit of goo floating in a primeval Miso soup. I think what I am now is more important than what my distant ancestors might have been.

Still I'm glad you get a chuckle out of my posts and don't take ire or get abusive. I value that.

The only way that best describes the soul is that it is a separate creation from our body, and it resides as a duplex unit - male and female - with it's own spiritual consciousness in the spirit world until it is separated and each soul is incarnated into a mother's womb... it is as our Heavenly Father is... and that is invisible to our eyes... and until a person has developed their soul to a degree where their soul perceptions are open and they know that it exists within their body, it is difficult to explain to people who have not yet had this awareness, because there is nothing on earth to make a comparison. But as I've already posted, we will all know about our souls once we pass into the spirit world.

Now animals do not have souls and they don't live beyond death as humans do... they are created for earth only... whereas we are created to live as spirits... we are born into a human body so that our spirit body, which houses our soul, can have a form and a personality. And the challenge we face as humans is to live as best that we can to try to keep our souls as sin-free as possible, which isn't an easy task given all of the diversions and perversions, animal appetites and passions that are a part and parcel of what makes us tick.

So getting back to the OP topic... the evidence for God consciousness... this all depends on our soul's development, because our Heavenly Father is a soul, just as He created ours... invisible but perceptible when our souls have progressed to a certain degree. So once, again, proof has to come from ourselves... our curiousity has to be such that we want to learn all there is to know... not just what is on this earth, but what happens to us when we leave it.

[ChristyGrl]

[quote=GldnRule;14762441]Yeah...I've heard and seen all that logi-babble before a million times. It doesn't count for squat when push comes to shove.

DIG THIS:::::Popular majority may not rule in the laboratory...but real life isn't a lab...and in real life---popular majority IS KING.

Try living in real, actual, society...where hardly anything is objective...and you don't need "proof"...you just need to have the most "mojo".

You want to know how it "REALLY IS"?-----I am AAAAAD POOOOOOPULUUUUUUM....My offense is impetuous, my defense impregnable...What I say, IIIIIIIS LAWWWWWWW!!!!!!.

THAT'S the way it works in real life...majority RULES. For example--Science has proven life begins at conception, everything after that is just further development of the same life...logically then, abortion is the willful taking of a life (murder)...but the MAJORITY of the Supreme Court Justices ruling on Roe VS Wade didn't think that way...so guess what?...I live in a world where I have to endure the killing of almost a million babies a week...and according to the law, that's just fine. Nice huh?

The majority has it all over logic and reason...when it comes to what RULES! And THAT'S what's real! Get hip to that...you'll be a lot better off.[/quote]

Oh my...you don't seriously live your life this way do you??????? Just because the majority believes in something...you believe it too????? Wow...I guess you check your brain in the coat closet everyday just to follow the majority masses...are you able to think for yourself???? If you have enough sense to know that abortion is the willful taking of another life, why would you continue to follow, believe in and trust the MAJORITY...just because there is more of them and they must be right????

Thank you for showing us exactly where you are coming from...it explains sooooo much now.

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

You tenaciously refuse to acknowledge that "Nature" is NOT the neutrality you assert. It implies no sort of forward planning intelligence and provides NO existing exemplar for the Source we do know scientifically must be there . . . the universal field

You don't mean "we" here, you mean you. And you don't mean "scientifically", you mean "via mystic visions". No matter how many diffferent ways you assert it, there's no objective evidence of these things (capital S Sources, forward planning intelligence, a universal consciousness field, etc).

So basically this complaint boils down to the fact that science doesn't back up your subjective religious beliefs. But until you can provide a workable, testable hypothesis and some evidence to confirm it, that's not the fault of science.

And I continue to find it strange you have such animosity towards the proper application of science (empirical based models) and at the same time desperately want it to confirm your subjective religious beliefs. If it's right, use it correctly and realize the subjective is simply that. If science is wrong, there's no need to co-opt it for your own benefit.

But this waffling back and forth - science's methods are wrong and at the same time those methods prove my view of god is correct - doesn't really make much sense. It's a sign you haven't really thought this through and are just throwing stuff against the wall and hoping something sticks to back up what you wish were true.

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

Summation--Know your role and your status. Make no more demands than "fairness" dictates your status permits.

You would have had a lot of fun in the pre-Civil War south. "Know your place, don't get uppity on me, boy" would have worked wonders back then. It's good to see that religious traditions about the role of minorities haven't changed too much since then.

[GldnRule]

[quote=ChristyGrl;14767395]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

Yeah...I've heard and seen all that logi-babble before a million times. It doesn't count for squat when push comes to shove.

DIG THIS:::::Popular majority may not rule in the laboratory...but real life isn't a lab...and in real life---popular majority IS KING.

Try living in real, actual, society...where hardly anything is objective...and you don't need "proof"...you just need to have the most "mojo".

You want to know how it "REALLY IS"?-----I am AAAAAD POOOOOOPULUUUUUUM....My offense is impetuous, my defense impregnable...What I say, IIIIIIIS LAWWWWWWW!!!!!!.

THAT'S the way it works in real life...majority RULES. For example--Science has proven life begins at conception, everything after that is just further development of the same life...logically then, abortion is the willful taking of a life (murder)...but the MAJORITY of the Supreme Court Justices ruling on Roe VS Wade didn't think that way...so guess what?...I live in a world where I have to endure the killing of almost a million babies a week...and according to the law, that's just fine. Nice huh?

The majority has it all over logic and reason...when it comes to what RULES! And THAT'S what's real! Get hip to that...you'll be a lot better off.[/quote]

Oh my...you don't seriously live your life this way do you??????? Just because the majority believes in something...you believe it too????? Wow...I guess you check your brain in the coat closet everyday just to follow the majority masses...are you able to think for yourself???? If you have enough sense to know that abortion is the willful taking of another life, why would you continue to follow, believe in and trust the MAJORITY...just because there is more of them and they must be right????

Thank you for showing us exactly where you are coming from...it explains sooooo much now.

Sometimes I wonder if some posters really don't understand...or are pretending not to understand simply to be disagreeable.

Obviously, the point of my post, specifically the "legal abortion" example...was that, even though one DOESN'T side with the majority...it is typical to be SUBJECTED to the will of the majority...because anywhere there is a democracy and free enterprise...the vote of the majority will determine the leaders and the laws (what RULES) and dictate what is being supplied based on the majority of the demand.

I didn't say that is how I CHOOSE to live my life...MOF I stated the opposite (even gave a specific example)...I said that is the REALITY OF HOW IT IS.

How someone could read my post (with all it's over-the-top emphasis and example) and respond the way you did...concluding the exact OPPOSITE of what I wrote, is beyond me. I said I had to ENDURE a society where abortion is legal, and portrayed "ad populum" as a big bellowing bully. I guess there is no accounting for reading comprehension, no matter how well you spell it out...oh, well. But...Thank you for showing me exactly how well you understand...it explains sooooo much now.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by KCfromNC

You don't mean "we" here, you mean you. And you don't mean "scientifically", you mean "via mystic visions". No matter how many diffferent ways you assert it, there's no objective evidence of these things (capital S Sources, forward planning intelligence, a universal consciousness field, etc).

KC . . . you are worse than Errorquipa when it comes to not reading MY views carefully and lumping them in with all the others you are arguing with. This lack of discrimination and intellectual discipline is very frustrating. Every time you post you reveal your misunderstanding of my views and respond to your generic "this-is-a-mystical-believer-jerk" Creationist stereotype. Learn to read, learn to focus on the details, learn to get it right . . . or go play with the kiddies you seem so focused on.

There are TWO levels to my position:

1. What is empirically undeniable and is more than sufficient to qualify for Godhood (controlling Source of it ALL) resident in the universal field that establishes our reality. and

2. What remains in the BELIEF category for ALL of us . . . consciousness versus mindlessness, etc.

I have explained the problem several times now (in the posts you clearly didn't read or didn't understand). Science applies to #1 and is more than sufficient as PARTIAL evidence for the EXISTENCE of a God (same SITUATION as in the Deer analogy . . . Deer exist . . . the Source exists)

Science does NOT apply to #2 . . . the BELIEFS of ALL of us (including those IMPLIED in the "Nature" label). There is NO scientific support or rationale for using "Nature" as the default because it includes those unproven and unscientific BELIEFS (mindlessness) and has NO existing exemplar for the Source (universal field). The God label contains the IMPLIED BELIEF of consciousness but it HAS an existing exemplar (in our own consciousnesses) as a candidate for the Source (universal field). Since NEITHER label is verified and is merely BELIEF . . . objectively, WHICH of the two is more deserving of the default?

So basically this complaint boils down to the fact that science doesn't back up your subjective religious beliefs. But until you can provide a workable, testable hypothesis and some evidence to confirm it, that's not the fault of science.

Until you can recognize and distinguish religion and religious arguments from philosophical, theistic and scientific ones . . . your contributions are a waste of everyone's time.

And I continue to find it strange you have such animosity towards the proper application of science (empirical based models) and at the same time desperately want it to confirm your subjective religious beliefs. If it's right, use it correctly and realize the subjective is simply that. If science is wrong, there's no need to co-opt it for your own benefit.

But this waffling back and forth - science's methods are wrong and at the same time those methods prove my view of god is correct - doesn't really make much sense. It's a sign you haven't really thought this through and are just throwing stuff against the wall and hoping something sticks to back up what you wish were true.

I am a scientist . . . stop confusing me with the anti-science crowd. Based on your posts . . . your knowledge of science and ability to analyze arguments critically is questionable. The failure to make sense resides ENTIRELY in your capacity to comprehend and transcend your religious bigotry..

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by KCfromNC

You would have had a lot of fun in the pre-Civil War south. "Know your place, don't get uppity on me, boy" would have worked wonders back then. It's good to see that religious traditions about the role of minorities haven't changed too much since then.

I emphasized FAIRNESS. I...Oh, forget it...I'm not going to respond to your horrible inference (that's what must be on YOUR mind)...it doesn't deserve it.