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Old 06-27-2010, 08:32 PM
 
608 posts, read 291,498 times
Reputation: 30
Default What is an ultimate explanation for a thing, and an ultimate understanding viz. comprehension?

Take this question from an inquisitive child coming to the age of reason, traditionally reckoned at seven years of age (could be and certainly earlier nowadays):

Dad, where do I come from?
[ Silly question nowadays, of course, but let us continue, for even today people ask where life comes from, and Darwin asked where do species come from but he already answered his own question by talking about species giving origin to species, wherefore begging his own question. ]
So, you bravely and with ironclad deadpan explain to your kid all about the birds and the bees, then man and wife, sexual copulation and pregnancy and fetal gestation, and finally how the baby squeezes out, gets pushed out, pulled out from mama's womb by way of the birth canal her exit for the baby, where you also deposited nine months back your procreative testicular concoction.

You are doing explanation.


So I ask you where do you stop when the child will continue to pester you to go on and on and on.

Into infinite regress? and is that an explanation?

Or is there an end point, an ultimate explanation when the child will be satisfied, and go forth in life with the first or one more question in life answered to his satisfaction?


Think about that, and put your thoughts here.





Ryrge
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
123 posts, read 70,097 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
Take this question from an inquisitive child coming to the age of reason, traditionally reckoned at seven years of age (could be and certainly earlier nowadays):

Dad, where do I come from?
[ Silly question nowadays, of course, but let us continue, for even today people ask where life comes from, and Darwin asked where do species come from but he already answered his own question by talking about species giving origin to species, wherefore begging his own question. ]
So, you bravely and with ironclad deadpan explain to your kid all about the birds and the bees, then man and wife, sexual copulation and pregnancy and fetal gestation, and finally how the baby squeezes out, gets pushed out, pulled out from mama's womb by way of the birth canal her exit for the baby, where you also deposited nine months back your procreative testicular concoction.

You are doing explanation.


So I ask you where do you stop when the child will continue to pester you to go on and on and on.
That explanation doesn't really do the question too much justice in my opinion. It roughly explains how he got there but not where he came from.

I'd say that since he was there last, I was hoping maybe he could tell me.

It is said that a child comes into the world through their parents and not from them.

Quote:
Into infinite regress? and is that an explanation?
It's an explanation. Not the only one mind you. (So far the only one for me)

Quote:
Or is there an end point, an ultimate explanation when the child will be satisfied, and go forth in life with the first or one more question in life answered to his satisfaction?
At some point the honest person will concede that we are now talking about beliefs and not facts. That is when I'd go on to say that I believe he is more than this human being. That everything is energy and energy only changes form.
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Swamps of Florida
3,427 posts, read 6,506,863 times
Reputation: 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
So, you bravely and with ironclad deadpan explain to your kid all about the birds and the bees, then man and wife, sexual copulation and pregnancy and fetal gestation, and finally how the baby squeezes out, gets pushed out, pulled out from mama's womb by way of the birth canal her exit for the baby, where you also deposited nine months back your procreative testicular concoction.
Well, if you explain it like that, then child probably wont ask you again.

Or you can go on and on about heavens and gods and confuse the hell out of that poor child.
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Boise
1,889 posts, read 1,938,951 times
Reputation: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
So I ask you where do you stop when the child will continue to pester you to go on and on and on.

Into infinite regress? and is that an explanation?

Or is there an end point, an ultimate explanation when the child will be satisfied, and go forth in life with the first or one more question in life answered to his satisfaction?


Think about that, and put your thoughts here.





Ryrge
I don't think that anyone should ever be totally satisfied in how much they know/learn. That being said, I say let the kid learn as much about as they want to... Ok, obviously there are some parts of the subject that a child shouldn't get too familiar with too soon. But who knows, maybe the kid might end up being an obstetrician or a gynecologist, I mean it could be worse right?
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:56 AM
 
3,222 posts, read 1,373,063 times
Reputation: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
Take this question from an inquisitive child coming to the age of reason, traditionally reckoned at seven years of age (could be and certainly earlier nowadays):

Dad, where do I come from?
[ Silly question nowadays, of course, but let us continue, for even today people ask where life comes from, and Darwin asked where do species come from but he already answered his own question by talking about species giving origin to species, wherefore begging his own question. ]
So, you bravely and with ironclad deadpan explain to your kid all about the birds and the bees, then man and wife, sexual copulation and pregnancy and fetal gestation, and finally how the baby squeezes out, gets pushed out, pulled out from mama's womb by way of the birth canal her exit for the baby, where you also deposited nine months back your procreative testicular concoction.

You are doing explanation.


So I ask you where do you stop when the child will continue to pester you to go on and on and on.

Into infinite regress? and is that an explanation?

Or is there an end point, an ultimate explanation when the child will be satisfied, and go forth in life with the first or one more question in life answered to his satisfaction?

Think about that, and put your thoughts here.
Ryrge
And after you go on and on...giving analogies...trying to simplify it so he understands...trying not to get too graphic about the "birds and the bees" part...and getting completely flustered...he says......

"Well Dad, I don't know if I understand all that...I was just wondering where I came from...because my friend Elvira at school says, she's from Baltimore, Maryland."
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:55 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,567,007 times
Reputation: 3624
Default Ding Ding Ding....

"ZINGGGGGGGOH"

(Aaaanddd... he scores!)

Sensible, logical erudite man: 1

Irrational, persistent, argumentative kid: 0
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:20 AM
 
Location: London, UK
15,498 posts, read 7,275,875 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
Take this question from an inquisitive child coming to the age of reason, traditionally reckoned at seven years of age (could be and certainly earlier nowadays):

Dad, where do I come from?
[ Silly question nowadays, of course, but let us continue, for even today people ask where life comes from, and Darwin asked where do species come from but he already answered his own question by talking about species giving origin to species, wherefore begging his own question.
That is probably the most slanted misrepresentation of evolution theory I have ever seen
Quote:
So, you bravely and with ironclad deadpan explain to your kid all about the birds and the bees, then man and wife, sexual copulation and pregnancy and fetal gestation, and finally how the baby squeezes out, gets pushed out, pulled out from mama's womb by way of the birth canal her exit for the baby, where you also deposited nine months back your procreative testicular concoction.

You are doing explanation.
Ok, and bravely and deadpan are fine too as a lot of parents might shrink from explaining these matters and get the giggles. If it's treated as fact, so kudos.

Quote:
So I ask you where do you stop when the child will continue to pester you to go on and on and on.

Into infinite regress? and is that an explanation?

Or is there an end point, an ultimate explanation when the child will be satisfied, and go forth in life with the first or one more question in life answered to his satisfaction?


Think about that, and put your thoughts here.


Ryrge

If the child is really curious, then the evidence for the ascent of life can be put forward and then if the kid wants to know about the origins of the earth, that evidence can also be put forward and so on.

Where we get to as far as we can go, then evidence about the expanding (local) universe and the background hiss of the 'bang' can be described.

If the kid is still interested, something about atomic formation can be explained.

Against this there is no other explanation that has any sound evidence. If there is, I should like to hear it.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:01 AM
 
4,698 posts, read 3,434,041 times
Reputation: 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
So I ask you where do you stop when the child will continue to pester you to go on and on and on.
You explain to the limits of your understanding and then be honest and say "we don't know" once you go past them (or past the child's ability to understand).

Quote:
Or is there an end point, an ultimate explanation when the child will be satisfied, and go forth in life with the first or one more question in life answered to his satisfaction?
Depends on whether the endless questions are intended to educate or to try and distract and confuse people. Someone who is honestly looking to learn will use the answers as springboard for their own education. A poster who is just looking to troll will keep asking pointless question after pointless question as if that proves something about the people who waste their time to answer.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:57 PM
 
608 posts, read 291,498 times
Reputation: 30
Default You guys miss the emphasis or most important focus of the thread.

Well, I guess I should have emphasized to everyone here that the thread is about the ultimate explanation and the ultimate understanding viz. comprehension of a thing.
[ Read the title of the thread again. ]
Has anyone here any ultimate explanation of anything at all, and wherefore he can say to himself to have an ultimate understanding viz. comprehension of anything at all?

Take the nose in man's face, what is the ultimate explanation, and wherefore to an intelligent person it is seen to be the ultimate understanding viz. comprehension of the nose?

The emphasis is on the word and concept, ultimate.


You guys miss the emphasis or most important focus of the thread.

Is that lack of discerning what is the emphasis in an issue indicative of a habit of not seeing what is the concentration of a topic?

If so, that is sad, on your part as a inquisitive (if at all) mind.



Suppose you ask yourself the question from the other end of what is an explanation of anything at all, namely, the understanding viz. comprehension of anything at all.


Does anyone here have any ultimate understanding viz. comprehension of anything at all, e.g., the nose in your face?




Ryrge
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:25 PM
 
Location: NY & Fl
10,860 posts, read 7,317,034 times
Reputation: 8736
Ryrge
Are you expecting one single easy-to-understand -third-grade-level answer to the question of who or what is responsible for your life?
MysticPhD is one poster here that is one of the few that claims he has the answers and gives reasons why....some others claim that they have it but don't give as many eloquent or quasi-scientific reasons as to why you should agree with them.
If you are seeking the ultimate no-questions-about-it answer, join the crowd.
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