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View Poll Results: Do you believe in evolution?
Yes 112 78.87%
No 30 21.13%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-29-2010, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,903 posts, read 6,005,521 times
Reputation: 3533

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
haha wow, your too funny. ya let me spend the rest of my life trying to explain something you may never understand. if your not naturally curious as to why we're here or what happens after death or even before you were alive, what makes the heart start beating, whats the purpose of the entire universe, i cant help you. you have to find it yourself because i wont waste my breath on someone that doesnt want to listen and already is not open minded to the fact that there may be a god in your mindset. rifleman doesnt get anything. he thinks some crap about rna or dna or whatever new "proof" of evolution is the next best thing. people learn new things everyday. and as far as god goes, hes always been there, the heavens and the earth, never changed, etc. etc. the theory of evolution and even scientifically have changed. everyone had "proof" at one time the earth was flat... and you could tell them night and day it cant be but their proof in my mind is just as good as the "proof" of evolution. its going to change. and one day, when the people who believe in god know of the day of judgement, one day that day will come and some people will still not believe whats going on. so why waste my time with those kind of people.

the bible may have changed, the torah may have changed, people try and change the quran but the concept of one god, heaven and hell, demons and angels, satan or the devil... the basics havent changed in over 6000 years. people just change the details to try and fill their own personal goals. but my "theory" has lasted almost since the beginning of man, not evolution wise because evolution says weve been here for 200000 years... ya right... but your theory was just invented by a scientist, and its changed constantly....
You're the one whose closed minded. When something is clearly explained to you, you just completely ignore it then continue babbling on about the same disproven nonsense in your previous posts. Case in point, your click clack concoction that people aren't apes then ignore the facts when they are explained to you. Also, you know nothing of the history and evolution of religion. For one, you ignore eastern religions. Hinduism is so old that no one even knows its founder. It predates every monotheistic religion by dynasties. If you know anything about Hinduism, you'd know that its concept of the afterlife is reincarnation, not hell and heaven based. It's also a pantheistic, not monotheistic. You also ignore nontheistic religions like Buddhism, jainism and Taoism. Also, the fact that religious beliefs don't change doesn't make them true. Science changes its claims when new evidence is discovered. Religion holds its views in spite of the evidence. Also, evolutionary theory has been revised many times, but the basic principles have never been disproven.

Last edited by agnostic soldier; 07-29-2010 at 07:46 PM..

 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:04 PM
 
397 posts, read 607,300 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Sorry but you fails to comprehend this subject. What we can do is only and extension of what evolution has already produce in other species.
Under the right conditions, things we do, animals also do. Only when there is a surplus of food, do we see humans doing what we take for granted today.

The termite that makes building more complicated, then most human buildings up until 100 years ago. Elephants paint pictures, chimps make tools and apparently count better then humans.
o man... yes very few elephants can paint, yes termites may build complicated "buildings", yes chimps make tools.... but a termite cant paint, an elephant cant build complicated buildings, and im sure chimps can draw but can they draw as well as an architect? no. we can do all these things... you just proved nothing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Just because you make up rules and claim they are about evolution, doesn't make it so, my ignorant creationist.
Elephants have obviously had the capability to paint for a long time, they just need the right conditions. JUST LIKE OUR ANCESTORS.
so your saying in the future we'll have elephant artist?.... nice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
This isn't playing both sides, it is the HONEST side. I'm betting there are powerful beings out there, worthy of being called gods, but the made up being written in human scriptures are obviously false.

But that is another matter. If you want me to tear your dogmatic beliefs apart, start another thread, this one is about the theory of evolution.
please, ill save that discussion for when the next thread that even has the mention of islam comes up and people talk down on it... people who just have to say something...

[quote=Gplex;15245600]You fail to understand, saying we are not apes, because you dislike the connection to other animals, is saying we are not mammals, or not vertebrates. Hey, both these categories still linking us with apes. Oh wait, we are apes
Nope, that is not what evolution says. Evolution describes how animals change over time.
DNA and other evidence shows that monkeys and apes (which technically under the same category as reptiles, because the old classification, that you know fails big time) all have a common ancestor.
You say we are perfect, I disagree.[quote]

im trying to think of how you think that just because dna is similar, that we must have a common "ancestor"... its impossible that theyve always been that way... right... what was the point of monkeys turning into chimps?... or chimps turning into apes?... or however the "theory" of evolution works now a days...

[quote=Gplex;15245600] You show your ignorance when you try to express you delusional idea of the theory of evolution.
Evolution is not a ladder, but a change in the genetic code, combine with natural selection to improve the species chances to survive long enough to reproduce.[quote]

there has not been a new species that has evolved from another because apparently this process takes so long its impossible to see/prove. but do you see species getting better?... i see species being extinct, new starts in the galaxy arent popping out of noewhere, theyre dying... so whats getting better... evolution wise of course... besides elephants knowing how to paint...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Whales ancestors once walked on land, and genetic changes combined with natural selection help them hunt better in the oceans, thus surviving long enough to reproduce. Walking IS NOT the goal of natural selection.
Your crude and child like understanding of the creationist version of evolution should embarrassed you. But for some crazy reason, you seem to want to wear it like a badge.
whales once walked on earth... what was the reason for them wanting to go BACK into the water then... because everything came out of the water right?... besides all that where did the walking whales go? what did the walking whales look like? did they branch off into other species too? what was even the point of every single thing (species) changing anyways... we obviously have been here for 200,000 years and we're still constantly changing? for what... we're fine the way we are...
 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,061,236 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
haha wow, your too funny. ya let me spend the rest of my life trying to explain something you may never understand. if your not naturally curious as to why we're here or what happens after death or even before you were alive, what makes the heart start beating, whats the purpose of the entire universe, i cant help you. you have to find it yourself because i wont waste my breath on someone that doesnt want to listen and already is not open minded to the fact that there may be a god in your mindset. rifleman doesnt get anything. he thinks some crap about rna or dna or whatever new "proof" of evolution is the next best thing. people learn new things everyday. and as far as god goes, hes always been there, the heavens and the earth, never changed, etc. etc. the theory of evolution and even scientifically have changed. everyone had "proof" at one time the earth was flat... and you could tell them night and day it cant be but their proof in my mind is just as good as the "proof" of evolution. its going to change. and one day, when the people who believe in god know of the day of judgement, one day that day will come and some people will still not believe whats going on. so why waste my time with those kind of people.

the bible may have changed, the torah may have changed, people try and change the quran but the concept of one god, heaven and hell, demons and angels, satan or the devil... the basics havent changed in over 6000 years. people just change the details to try and fill their own personal goals. but my "theory" has lasted almost since the beginning of man, not evolution wise because evolution says weve been here for 200000 years... ya right... but your theory was just invented by a scientist, and its changed constantly....
The reason that I am now atheistic is because I am open minded and curious, and religion had no satisfying answers to my questions. Evolution has the answers about our origins that are logical and much more satisfying to me.....

You, on the other hand ignore anything and everything that conflicts with religious views, even when things are patiently explained to you, and evidence offered...The very definition of a closed mind...Your ignorance is constantly exposed with statements such as "Evolution was invented by a scientist"

I'll just say this regarding you above post....Insults are the last refuge of the incompetent.
 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:14 PM
 
397 posts, read 607,300 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
You're the one whose closed minded. When something is clearly explained to you, you just completely ignore it then continue babbling on about the same disproven nonsense in your previous posts. Case in point, your click clack concoction that people aren't apes then ignore the facts when they are explained to you. Also, you know nothing of the history and evolution of religion. For one, you ignore eastern religions. Hinduism is so old that no one even knows its founder. It predates every monotheistic religion by dynasties. If you know anything about Hinduism, you'd know that its concept of the afterlife is reincarnation, not hell and heaven based. It's also a pantheistic, not monotheistic. You also ignore nontheistic religions like Buddhism, jainism and Taoism. Also, the fact that religious beliefs don't change doesn't make them true. Science changes its claims when new evidence is discovered. Religion holds its views in spite of the evidence. Also, evolutionary theory has been revised many times, but the basic principles have never been disproven.
so theres really old religions that are still practiced today, check. good job on proving that and only that...
 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:25 PM
 
397 posts, read 607,300 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
You're all doing very well lads, I'll just mention that the battle of the You -tubes is neither here nor there. It is claiming or explaining ideas or conclusions but they are not in the nature of properly presented scientific evidence.

Sukrill hinted that, if scientific proof of God was presented, we would not accept it. I'd like to think that we would, but the fact is that the scientific proofs have turned out not to be very good science, if science at all.

Creation science (someone asked why it is given special status - it is because it the toughest cult in the line of Flat earth, spiritism, pyramidology, Atlantis and Daniken's gods from outer space, and it needs proper scientific consideration) has done the very best to prove a number of things, Young earth, a creator of some kind, fallacy of evolution, and the best (Behe's irreducable complexity take on first cause and watchmaker argument) has actually been pretty soundly refuted.

Fact is, Sukrill, that the science has already been presented and found seriously wanting and, if we don't accept it it is for darn good, sound, scientifically -based cogent reasons.

If you can produce better, there's a Nobel prize in it for you.
even if it were proven you think people would accept it... god himself can send as many messengers as he wants, he could send one today, fact is, people still wouldnt believe in god. so whats the point of even beginning to explain to someone that which they simply dont understand...
 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:30 PM
 
397 posts, read 607,300 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Q: What about God creating those genes within the chicken that are chemically suppressed but instead turned on would allow the chicken to physically express carnivorous teeth ala' a Velociraptor? And then there's also the code within the chicken genome for it's ancient lizard-like tail, also repressed. (This has been factually reported, duplicated and verified. Not on YouTube, but in fact, in the lab. Sorry if you 1) don't "like" it, or 2) won't believe it. Your loss.)

As for whales, I suppose God purposefully made distinct hands within the whale's front and hind flippers, with exactly the same numbers of fingers, joints and relative locations as earlier (and later!) terrestrial mammals, including us. Yup; to avoid errors, God was "practicing" for his other efforts I suppose....

Gene repression is a well-documented fact in genetics. It shows clearly what some past attributes were, where they came from and what they could be today if turned on. Hard to imagine the rationale for God including such unnecessary information when He was creating each species as "perfect", huh?

But, despite such clear evidence, let's not even consider the obvious possibility that Evolution might be responsible here. (Along with the other corroborating evidence like the geological column, fossils, isotopic dating, relative morphology, tRNA lineage tracking, etc.etc. etc. etc. etc.). The Creationist websites fight long and hard to debunk each and every one of the various and growing proofs for each key evidence element. Frankly, it's embarrassing as a logical, rational person to watch since they go to such absurd lengths to deny, deny deny.

They, and you, just hand-wave all that stuff off, and go back to pounding the table with The Good Book.

And why? Because it threatens the Holy Grail of Christianity; a perfect infallible God who created it all one afternoon when He was lonely. Complete with oddball manifestations, contradictions and identical structures in vastly different organisms. Oh yeah; and those fossils He "planted" just to test or confuse us. Yep; that makes a lot of sense. Yep.
i see that rifleman has come to hear himself talk again....
 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,892,755 times
Reputation: 3767
And I can see that intelligent, fact-filled info falls on sukrill's deaf ears, and he/she's intelllectually unable to respond to my commentary, so I'll take my own advice: here's my answer to your bumbling, incoherent ill-educated anti-science rants:

"It's all BS, but on top of that, you're proud if it!"

There! Simple, direct and no punches pulled!! And so much easier than trying to drag the intransigent and stubborn along towards enlightenment!
 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:47 PM
 
397 posts, read 607,300 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanTerra View Post
Ask yourself why a Creator would create a defect in our species, and the same defect in what appears to be a closely related species, and in just such a way as to be highly suggestive of common ancestry.

This is NOT to imply that a Creator does not exist. Simply that if one does, the most likely answer is that evolution was used as the primary tool of creation.

One does not have to be an atheist to accept evolution. But one pretty much must reject science to deny evolution.
the GULO gene may be an entirely different discussion. to answer the "defect" in our species, everything happens for a reason i believe. if there is in fact a defect it wouldnt surprise me. aids was never heard about until a few decades ago, same as any other disease that has been in the past and still present. and one does not have to reject science to deny evolution. i believe in laws of science, but not so much theories... so i have to respectfully disagree...
 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,892,755 times
Reputation: 3767
Of course, you now show us all your total lack of education in this tiresome old (and completely incorrect) interpretation of the word "theory" as it's accurately applied in science versus the very average, scientifically-illiterate man in the street use. A group you obviously belong to, by your own admission.

So, until you learn up some-bit, I'll just put you on my "ignore" list, where you so rightly belong.

TaTa!
 
Old 07-29-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,903 posts, read 6,005,521 times
Reputation: 3533
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
so theres really old religions that are still practiced today, check. good job on proving that and only that...
Good job at continueing to show you know nothing of evolution. I don't see why you consider the ancient scribblings of bronze age middle eastern war mongers to hold more credible truth than physics and biology. Your ignorance of evolution only proves you have never done a tittle of study on the theory. You make a bunch of weird presumptions about evolution and then purport them as fact, when in actuality everything you claim about evolution is lying hogwash and isn't even remotely close to what evolution actually is. It's time you stopped getting your information from a 1400 year old holy text and start studying science and what it actually claims, rather than what your imam says it claims. I know that must have been to long for you to read, but try to do so. It won't even take ninety seconds.
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