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Old 02-15-2011, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,058 posts, read 29,420,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
This thought crossed my mind recently and it amused me. Could you imagine if non believing groups went doorknocking to try and deconvert Christians?
Not only is this a wonderful idea, but I think we should carry it even further. We should begin looking down our noses at those "believers," and start using that word in a condescending tone whenever possible. (Purely for our own amusement, since I doubt they'd actually learn anything from it!)
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:03 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,046,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Not only is this a wonderful idea, but I think we should carry it even further. We should begin looking down our noses at those "believers," and start using that word in a condescending tone whenever possible. (Purely for our own amusement, since I doubt they'd actually learn anything from it!)
The Internet and very young voters swung the last presidential election to Barack Obama. The same thing will ultimately take all the ancient god worship down like the Titanic. Our young people are a lot smarter than we used to be when we were young. The main reason is that they look for proof and don't just accept something as true because an older person says it is.
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 21,327,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
I don't know whether or not you might have seen Bill Maher's Religulous thing but I thought parts of it were so true and indicitive of the caliber of Christian in the good ol' south. In one tent meeting while the introductory comments were still being made a guy who weighed at least 300 pounds said he didn't like where that talk about "His God" was headed and got up and waddled to the exit. I cracked up so loudly that my wife came from another room to see what had me that torn up.
Yes , I saw "Religulous" and I remember that bit quite well. You start thinking there is no point in even attempting to have any form of intellectual discourse when the mind of some people is so hermetically sealed. What truly frightens me is not so much the ignorance in a way but the revelling in it.


There is a culture of irrationality which is simply impossible to combat. Reason does not stand a chance.



There is almost pride in some people about refusing even to open their minds to the possibility of evolution for example which to me is utterly baffling.

I think I was always pretty tolerant of religions in general, until I came to the US and also since I joined this forum. I grew up surrounded by religious people from all faiths and pretty much all of them were what I would call moderate and "normal".

I travelled the world and even as a single female traveller around the Middle East experienced absolutely no fundamentalism from anyone, just wonderful hospitality and good humoured people for example. Of course I realise all faith have their freaks and extremists but somehow American Christians terrify me more because so many people seem to find it quite normal.

The fact that a US Presidential candidate has to play the "Of course I am a Christian " game to be elected makes me sick to my stomach.

What I have experienced on C-D and in the Southern States has left me reeling with the realisation of the extremes of faith held by some. Of course I have known it was always there but there is such a "normalisation" of it in the US, an acceptance that this form of religion is perfectly run of the mill and in many ways to be condoned and elevated to the ranks of desirable even.

The mind boggles.

I was a fairly neutral Atheist when I joined C-D but some posters have certainly made me a lot more staunch and a lot more outspoken. I suppose they have converted me away from quiet Atheism which is maybe a good thing !
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:32 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,046,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
Yes , I saw "Religulous" and I remember that bit quite well. You start thinking there is no point in even attempting to have any form of intellectual discourse when the mind of some people is so hermetically sealed. What truly frightens me is not so much the ignorance in a way but the revelling in it.


There is a culture of irrationality which is simply impossible to combat. Reason does not stand a chance.



There is almost pride in some people about refusing even to open their minds to the possibility of evolution for example which to me is utterly baffling.

I think I was always pretty tolerant of religions in general, until I came to the US and also since I joined this forum. I grew up surrounded by religious people from all faiths and pretty much all of them were what I would call moderate and "normal".

I travelled the world and even as a single female traveller around the Middle East experienced absolutely no fundamentalism from anyone, just wonderful hospitality and good humoured people for example. Of course I realise all faith have their freaks and extremists but somehow American Christians terrify me more because so many people seem to find it quite normal.

The fact that a US Presidential candidate has to play the "Of course I am a Christian " game to be elected makes me sick to my stomach.

What I have experienced on C-D and in the Southern States has left me reeling with the realisation of the extremes of faith held by some. Of course I have known it was always there but there is such a "normalisation" of it in the US, an acceptance that this form of religion is perfectly run of the mill and in many ways to be condoned and elevated to the ranks of desirable even.

The mind boggles.

I was a fairly neutral Atheist when I joined C-D but some posters have certainly made me a lot more staunch and a lot more outspoken. I suppose they have converted me away from quiet Atheism which is maybe a good thing !
Six of my eight grandchildren have been thoroughly brainwashed with all four acts of the Christian play. I'm between a rock and a hard place. I was brainwashed as a child, lived in the church until I was about sixty years old before I knew I would never believe it. At one point in my twenties I had most of the new testament memorized chapter and verse and was quick to quote it for folks. I use discussion forums like this one to vent because if I take such a stand within my own family I'll surely be disowned. Either that or they'll say, "Well...The Old Man's Finally Completely Lost It!"

Three of my grandchildren were Baptized when they were six months old and attend a K-12 Christian school in Atlanta. What chance at moderation do any of them have?

Thank you for speaking out...maybe if enough do that things will change.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 39,855,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Not only is this a wonderful idea, but I think we should carry it even further. We should begin looking down our noses at those "believers," and start using that word in a condescending tone whenever possible. (Purely for our own amusement, since I doubt they'd actually learn anything from it!)
Odd. The atheists I know already do that.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:27 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,046,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Odd. The atheists I know already do that.
Oh it's gotten progressively less acceptable. Let's see...in the 1860's amidst a bloody civil war the religious extremists put pressure on the secretary of the treasury and managed to get "In God We Trust" added to the first of our coins. Then when the McCarthyites were doing their communist housecleaning during the cold war in the 50's they managed to get the pledge of allegiance modified to include "Under God" and at that time also added "In God We Trust" to our currency and got it adopted as the national motto. They've been busy. It's about time the wheel begins to turn in the other direction. Contrary to what Christians believe and teach their children America was never intended to be a Christian nation. In America a native American, a Buddhist, a Jew, a Muslim and an atheist have the same right to their faith or lack thereof as a Christian. The constitution won't work any other way.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 39,855,825 times
Reputation: 10898
You're right in one respect--the prevailing religion in any one area was NOT tolerant of other religions in the same area. The Puritans didn't accept those that had other faiths, nor did the Quakers. Roger Williams was tossed out for his religious beliefs.

Now, I suppose, it will be the atheists. If you're not atheist, you don't get to have a say. Welcome to America.
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Old 02-15-2011, 05:47 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 21,995,537 times
Reputation: 6649
I would still say the "knocking on doors" thing is kind of limited to only a few groups. My family were Catholic in the Bible Belt and although they clearly indicated we were of the wrong religion, and told my older siblings that in public school, I don't think they ever went to our house. I'll have to check with my Mom though as she'd remember better. (I was 5 when we left)

There would sometimes be anti-Catholic leaflets placed in windshield wipers. If atheists started putting pamphlets from Joseph McCabe or Avro Manhattan on my van that would be pretty annoying. Still the other thing they did down there, berating students about their religion, is something I'm pretty sure some atheists are willing to do. I didn't deal with that before college, but I don't know if I'd be too shocked if someday High School teachers start using class-time to try to "brighten" kids and "break the spell of religion." It's possibly only a matter of time.
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Old 02-15-2011, 05:54 PM
 
48,521 posts, read 79,954,950 times
Reputation: 17943
I am not happy but I accept thatnot all will be saved even amoug those wh say they beleive. Its clear in the bible ;IMO.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:15 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,046,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I am not happy but I accept thatnot all will be saved even amoug those wh say they beleive. Its clear in the bible ;IMO.
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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