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I've already told but, predictably, you didn't respond to it. If Biblegod is omniscient then before he set out on his 'creation' trip, he knew exactly what the results of his actions would be. He knew A+E would disobey, he knew he would be destroying everyone on the planet save 8 and he knew that destroying everyone on the planet but 8 would not achieve it's intended purpose, yet, he carried on regardless. Now tell me how he isn't to blame if all those things were known to him.
Scenario:
I load a gun, give it to your 3 year old child and tell it not to pull the trigger. I have absolute 100% foreknowledge that your child WILL pull the trigger and kill himself. Your child pulls the trigger whilst playing with the gun and blows it's head off (as I knew it would). Who would you hold responsible for the disaster, me or your 3 year old child?? Do try to answer the question please.
Because we were born with free will, we can do what we want. Doesn't mean we are always going to use that free will wisely though. Satan rebelled and got Adam and Eve to also. Satan questioned God's right to rule. By calling God a liar who withholds goods from his subjects, Satan charged that God is a bad ruler. Satan implied that mankind would be better off without God's rulership. Adam and Eve in effect, said that they didn't need God as their ruler. They could decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong. God stated his purpose to fill the Earth with the offspring of Adam and Eve and he always fulfills his purposes. Had he simply destroyed them, his purpose wouldn't have been fulfilled. Besides that, the question that was raised about his right to rule wouldn't have been answered.
The rebels in the garden were not the only ones involved, there were millions of angels watching. How he handled that rebellion would greatly affect all those angels and eventually all intelligent creation. So he has allowed Satan to show how he would rule mankind. He's also allowed humans to govern themselves under Satan's guidance. God knows that all honesthearted humans and angels will benefit from seeing that Satan and his fellow rebels have failed and that humans cannot govern themselves.
And yes I would blame you if my child got shot. A 3 year old can't handle a gun!
When all you have to offer for proof of something that's supposed to happen after we die is a self serving collection of Jewish lies there isn't anything worth arguing about. I'd be ashamed to teach my children or admit that I believed that virgin birth, healing leprosy and other diseases by touching, walking on water, turning water into fine wine, feeding 5000+ with two fish and five loaves then gathering 12 baskets of leftovers, hanging a man on a tree and bleeding him like a hog only to see him alive and well two days later, etc. was or is possible. Just curious...have you seen anything like that during your lifetime?[/quote]
Oh, YES, I have seen it...MOF I'm looking at it---"virgin birth, healing leprosy and other diseases by touching, walking on water, turning water into fine wine, feeding 5000+ with two fish and five loaves then gathering 12 baskets of leftovers, hanging a man on a tree and bleeding him like a hog only to see him alive and well two days later, etc"...NOW add to that, the miracle power of God to compel a couple dozen people who claim they don't think He exists...to collectively devote TENS of THOUSANDS of hours of their life writing about, and thus, contemplating Him.
You really are a delight to read mate.
'Have you seen anything like..(far - fetched miracles in the Bible) ..in your lifetime.
Yes says Gldrule.
What?
Atheists writing about it.
If that's your best evidence for God - that we have to spend hours and hours countering the Theist illogic that has blighted human life for thousands of years and is only now beginning to retreat - then the only 'evidence for God' is utterly negative evidence.
Is that truly the best evidence you have? Or is that just another example of theist twisting, evasion, misrepresentation, fallacy and downright dishonesty-for -God? Yep, I think it is.
'Have you seen anything like..(far - fetched miracles in the Bible) ..in your lifetime.
Yes says Gldrule.
What?
Atheists writing about it.
If that's your best evidence for God - that we have to spend hours and hours countering the Theist illogic that has blighted human life for thousands of years and is only now beginning to retreat - then the only 'evidence for God' is utterly negative evidence.
Is that truly the best evidence you have? Or is that just another example of theist twisting, evasion, misrepresentation, fallacy and downright dishonesty-for -God? Yep, I think it is.
"I think" being the key words.
It there is a god he is damn sure scarce with his appearance. I've been here for over 75 years and have seen nothing...absolutely nothing which could not be proven and/or verifed with math, chemistry and circumstances. I don't believe in ghosts...holy or otherwise.
It there is a god he is damn sure scarce with his appearance. I've been here for over 75 years and have seen nothing...absolutely nothing which could not be proven and/or verified with math, chemistry and circumstances. I don't believe in ghosts...holy or otherwise.
Maybe seeing an actual supernatural thing would be more upsetting than helpful for you. (Upsetting in a non-beneficial way) So God demurs in order to give you your space or whatever.
In the Old Testament God seems to pop in on people all the time, but the people often just get whiny and demanding. (I know you'll cite mean things God says in the OT, but the people of that era seem to demand God get harsh on their enemies too and in Jonah's case he seems almost mad that God spares a repentant Nineveh.)
If God started regrowing limbs people would ask why he doesn't regrow eyes. If he regrows eyes why not end cancer? If he ends cancer why not AIDS. If he ends all cancers and all infectious diseases what about parasites? And if he kills off all the parasites what effect will that have on the ecosystem and so forth. Which relates to what we're saying because another possibility is maybe God thinks if he did something miraculous for you it might just leave you unsatisfied or even annoyed. Who knows?
Although to be honest I personally lean more toward thinking "big" miracles are relatively rare things that usually have a higher purpose in mind. Convincing Melvin George that God exists would likely be insufficient reason to circumvent the laws of nature. You're just unlikely to be that important.
Atheists, don't think your insisting and overshouting and number of your votes have any change of the truth of God and His miraculous actions in the universe and nature.
Atheists, don't think your insisting and overshouting and number of your votes have any change of the truth of God and His miraculous actions in the universe and nature.
If you blind believers only realized how utterly foolish you sound to the unbrainwashed you'd shut your faces. I've seen no miralces. There have been no miracles. I remember a woman and something that happened over forty years ago. She went to her mailbox and opened an envelope which contained a refund from an overpayment to an insurance company. The crazy thing proceeded to tell us how she had seen no way she could make her payments that month of which some were overdue and she had been praying about it. She gave god credit for sending a check which was the result of an overpayment of her own doing and from her own money. Yep...god works in mysterious ways. LOL!
In the Old Testament God seems to pop in on people all the time, but the people often just get whiny and demanding. .
They have proven that the five books of the OT credited to Moses were written about 500 years after he died and most of it was written in third person. You expect me to accept that as anything but the ramblings of primitive man? Who was that mysterious writer who heard god talking to Moses and saw the tabloids and burning bush? LOL
Atheists, don't think your insisting and overshouting and number of your votes have any change of the truth of God and His miraculous actions in the universe and nature.
nor will the posting of Holy Texts and pointing out how many more believers there are do a single thing to alter the fact that there is not a shred of sound evidence for any god.
They have proven that the five books of the OT credited to Moses were written about 500 years after he died and most of it was written in third person. You expect me to accept that as anything but the ramblings of primitive man? Who was that mysterious writer who heard god talking to Moses and saw the tabloids and burning bush? LOL
It's actually not crucial to my point on the OT that the OT describe actual events. My point was more if God was just doing stuff all the time we might become dependent and demanding.
Although your insistent chronological snobbery is not one of your more endearing qualities. True more primitive peoples were ignorant and wrong on many things, but they weren't all stupid rambling people. People like Euclid, Archimedes, Pingala, al-Biruni, etc. are part of the history of why we can be on computers right now.
Maybe seeing an actual supernatural thing would be more upsetting than helpful for you. (Upsetting in a non-beneficial way) So God demurs in order to give you your space or whatever.
A good excuse of the kind that UFO buffs have used for a long time. They don't reveal themselves in a better than anecdotal way because we couldn't handle it.
Quote:
In the Old Testament God seems to pop in on people all the time, but the people often just get whiny and demanding. (I know you'll cite mean things God says in the OT, but the people of that era seem to demand God get harsh on their enemies too and in Jonah's case he seems almost mad that God spares a repentant Nineveh.)
I don't think that the OT parables and myths are really a guide to how people would react if God really showed up and started setting out His agenda. Do you seriously think that he would retreat into his Shell (or whatever He's got) just because Jonah showed some short - sightedness?
Quote:
If God started regrowing limbs people would ask why he doesn't regrow eyes. If he regrows eyes why not end cancer? If he ends cancer why not AIDS. If he ends all cancers and all infectious diseases what about parasites? And if he kills off all the parasites what effect will that have on the ecosystem and so forth. Which relates to what we're saying because another possibility is maybe God thinks if he did something miraculous for you it might just leave you unsatisfied or even annoyed. Who knows?
A good slippery slope argument for excusing God from doing anything other than vanish aches, pains and cancers which one is not sure were even there in the first place. It's just more of this annoying gods (or Ufo's) only reveal themselves in ways which, with a bit of ingenuity or impudence could be faked by fraudsters and unbelievers but it would somehow be breaking unwritten rules (faith in the case of gods, the prime directive in the case of aliens) against just turning up in some way that would put paid to speculation once and for all.
Quote:
Although to be honest I personally lean more toward thinking "big" miracles are relatively rare things that usually have a higher purpose in mind. Convincing Melvin George that God exists would likely be insufficient reason to circumvent the laws of nature. You're just unlikely to be that important.
Individually, yes, but let's face it, if the Bible is to be believed, God was always rolling up in person and even showed up to convert paul when he didn't want to be converted.
So the pas is sold. God hath already dun it. If not for Paul, why not for melvin George? Why not for every atheists or unbeliever? why not for everybody?
The answers are, it would abrogate faith (it wouldn't, unless faith requires gullibility or it ain't real faith) or it would abrogate Free will. Again, it wouldn't. It would only remove very reasonable doubt.
In the end, the only argument would be it's not our business to tell God what to do. But unless God is stupid, He can see as clearly as anyone else what doubt the failure to improve on the apparent poor evidence and the ongoing problem of evil is causing.
I put it to you, mate, wouldn't there being no god and the Bible a book of myths explain everything and clear up all the puzzles?
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You really are a delight to read mate. 
