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You missed my point Pladcalvo - Let me put it another way, Saul/Paul was one of the religious Jewish leader that put many Christians to death. Jesus appeared before Saul/Paul on the way to Damascus and suddently that changed everything, it's called a conviction. Again, why would somebody like that change in an instance, and end up writing may books in the New Testament? There had to be a reason.
No! I don't think I missed your point at all Mike. The story you are refering to occurs in the bible...and only in the bible. You are therefore using the bible to try to prove to me that the bible is true and that the story in the bible actually happend...because the bible says it did. It's a circular argument however you look at it. Now if you could provide secular evidence that the events in this story actually happened....and could back up that evidence with peer reviewed articles, then you could be on to something!
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Regarding what you said in your last paragraph, no I believe God exists for a lot of other reasons than just what was written in the Bible and I've seen what God can do. Perhaps if you gave him a chance, he'd reveal himself to you and let you know he is real.
If your god really did create the Universe in 6 days, it shouldn't be much trouble for him to prove to me that he exists. The fact that he hasn't tells me either, he doesn't want to or he doesn't exist!
Pladcalvo, all you have to do is believe and the truth will be revealed to you.
The way I see it is we have about 70-80 here on earth and when our time comes, we will stand infront God one day just to be judged, as was mentioned in the Bible and we won't get a second chance. You want proof? Read about people who were pronounced dead then were revived and gave an account of their experience. Those who were believers said they felt peace they had never felt before, while those who were not believers said they saw what hell was like and they changed what they thought and believed about God.
On God creating the earth in 6 days, you have to remember that a day in God's time is not the same as our day.
Those who were believers said they felt peace they had never felt before, while those who were not believers said they saw what hell was like and they changed what they thought and believed about God.
Not to nit pick, but wouldn't that be a second chance?
Not at all Irish. If it was "proof" I couldn't argue against it could I? Christians keep saying "The proof is there but you won't accept it because you don't believe". To me that's nonsense. Proof is proof even if you don't believe it. Falling rain is proof that it's raining......it's there for all to see not just those who believe in rain.
I also get riled when Christians quote scriptures from the bible and claim it to be "the truth" or "proven evidence", yet they cant prove the bible to be true, they just take it on faith that it's true. They don't seem to understand that quoting scripture to atheists does absolutely nothing. The bible can't be used to prove the bible is true......well, not logically anyway.
You asked for historians who had written about Jesus as a person who existed on earth and I gave it to you...whenever it was written...it IS THERE. He was a real person on the earth.
Second: it is impossible to PROVE that God exists because it is something you experience in your heart. How can you PROVE that you love someone? You cannot because it is in your heart. Same concept. So, you ask the question knowing there is no proof. If you choose not to believe that is your choice BUT you can't ask for other's to prove it to you. That's not possible.
Not to nit pick, but wouldn't that be a second chance?
Yes, it would be, but not many people usually get that. Of course I was referring to instances when the person passes away and doesn't return. There's no second chance there.
it is impossible to PROVE that God exists because it is something you experience in your heart. How can you PROVE that you love someone? You cannot because it is in your heart. Same concept.
My turn to nitpick: It is not the same concept.
Saying "you cannot PROVE that you love someone, because love is an intangible feeling in the heart" (well technically it's in your brain, because the heart is an organ that pumps blood, it doesn't generate feelings!) is only the same as saying "you cannot PROVE that you believe in God, because belief in God is an intangible feeling in the heart" (meaning in the brain). THAT would be the same concept and I would agree with that, because it IS impossible to "prove" the existence of a FEELING.
But that's not what you said. You were equating the FEELING of love with the EXISTENCE of God. That's comparing apples and oranges.
Taking your example of feeling love for someone, even though you can't PROVE the existence of your emotion (love), you CAN prove the existence of the person you love. Even if that person dies, he or she once existed, otherwise how could you have known him or her enough to be able to fall in love? You can't fall in love with a person who never existed, can you? (well not if you're rational anyway) If you "create" a person out of your own imagination, can you feel love for that non-existant person? If you can, most people would call that a delusion, not love.
If you're saying "God exists because I believe he exists", then you might as well say "My imaginary lover exists because I love him". Now THAT would be the same concept.
Saying "you cannot PROVE that you love someone, because love is an intangible feeling in the heart" (well technically it's in your brain, because the heart is an organ that pumps blood, it doesn't generate feelings!) is only the same as saying "you cannot PROVE that you believe in God, because belief in God is an intangible feeling in the heart" (meaning in the brain). THAT would be the same concept and I would agree with that, because it IS impossible to "prove" the existence of a FEELING.
But that's not what you said. You were equating the FEELING of love with the EXISTENCE of God. That's comparing apples and oranges.
Taking your example of feeling love for someone, even though you can't PROVE the existence of your emotion (love), you CAN prove the existence of the person you love. Even if that person dies, he or she once existed, otherwise how could you have known him or her enough to be able to fall in love? You can't fall in love with a person who never existed, can you? (well not if you're rational anyway) If you "create" a person out of your own imagination, can you feel love for that non-existant person? If you can, most people would call that a delusion, not love.
If you're saying "God exists because I believe he exists", then you might as well say "My imaginary lover exists because I love him". Now THAT would be the same concept.
We were talking about how God Speaks to your heart (actually your spirit to be technically correct) and my comment was directed towards the fact that you cannot prove how God speaks to your spirit in the same way that you can't prove the feeling of love. It wasn't about proving the existence of God Himself or the existence of a lover that you love.
There is some archeological proof of much of the historical truths in the Bible: kings, nations, etc. The religious events in the Bible are about this relationship that we were discussing between man and God, not so much religion in the sense of rituals. You can't prove or disprove this relationship that occurs in one's spirit.
Definition of Religion: A religion is a set of beliefs and practices generally held by a community, involving adherence to codified beliefs and rituals and study of ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience.
Definition of Mythology: A body or collection of myths belonging to a people and addressing their origin, history, deities, ancestors, and heroes.
A body of myths associated with an event, individual, or institution.
Then explain why Zues is a myth and God is not. Thanks!
To be precise, imo, Zeus is not a myth, he's a character. The myths are the stories. This might be quibbling, but I think it's important. The characters can be fictional, and they can be real life figures too. GW is real, not a myth, but it seems accepted now that his chopping down the cherry tree and saying he cannot tell a lie are myths.
I think religion involves more than the spiritual myths it contains. It involves ceremonies that myths don't.
What they share is the effort to introduce and promote certain values and lessons.
Pladcalvo, all you have to do is believe and the truth will be revealed to you.
Well now, that's exactly what I'm saying isn't it? In order to have the evidence you first have to believe. That's not evidence is it?
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The way I see it is we have about 70-80 here on earth and when our time comes, we will stand infront God one day just to be judged, as was mentioned in the Bible and we won't get a second chance. You want proof? Read about people who were pronounced dead then were revived and gave an account of their experience. Those who were believers said they felt peace they had never felt before, while those who were not believers said they saw what hell was like and they changed what they thought and believed about God.
As you say....that's the way you see it!!
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On God creating the earth in 6 days, you have to remember that a day in God's time is not the same as our day.
A day is a day dude. It's 24 hours. You dudes crack me up! You keep telling us the your bible is the infallable word of god...the bible says the world was made in six days and now you are saying that the bible is wrong! This "a day isn't a day" thing came about when science began to prove that the world is 4.5 billion years old....and that didn't fit in with bible timescales did it? Apologists had to think up a cover story, hence the "a day to god is like a thousand years" joke.
If your god is as almighty as you say he is, why did he need as long as 6 days to create the world anyway or even 6 seconds (or 6,000 years if we are to believe you). Why didn't he just snap his fingers and say "there ya go dudes...get on with it"............and perhaps more importantly, why did such an Omnimax and powerful being need to take a rest after his work?
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This "a day isn't a day" thing came about when science began to prove that the world is 4.5 billion years old....and that didn't fit in with bible timescales did it? Apologists had to think up a cover story, hence the "a day to god is like a thousand years" joke. 
