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I voted yes with the caveat that "yes" really means "maybe". I say this because I have had certain experiences, but I cannot say for certainty that what I experienced is actually what I thought it was. Does that make sense?
Yes it does, actually. I would just tend to say that there is more likely to be a natural explanation. For instance, a remarkable answer to a prayer would have been considered proof of the supernatural power of prayer except that of course I wasn't praying and the event was quite unexpected. In short I was lucky.
I don't deny that some other events not so easily explained are regarded by me as not proven suprnatural whereas others would say 'supernatural until proven natural', but that's the semantic problem of the term.
A definite, resounding maybe. I just don't know. I know a lot of people have thought they have seen ghosts or talked to dead relatives or had out of body experiences or etc etc... I don't recall ever having experienced the supernatural at any time in my life - but I'm not going to completely discount everyone else's experiences. Do I think there are most likely logical explanations for most things - yes. But I would not rule out the possiblity of forces beyond our understanding.
There are things in my life that seem to have been ruled by fate (maybe to some that would be God) but it could just be wishful thinking. I do think that there have been some signs in my life that have let me know when I am doing the right thing or am on the right path - and while I think that the universe is sending me signs - I know that a Christian would see it as God or Christ - or maybe a person of different faith would see it in the light of their own God or gods, etc.
So, like I said - a resounding maybe!
Yes it does, actually. I would just tend to say that there is more likely to be a natural explanation. For instance, a remarkable answer to a prayer would have been considered proof of the supernatural power of prayer except that of course I wasn't praying and the event was quite unexpected. In short I was lucky.
I don't deny that some other events not so easily explained are regarded by me as not proven suprnatural whereas others would say 'supernatural until proven natural', but that's the semantic problem of the term.
True. What we attribute certain events to may not be what they seem. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about, though I won't go into everything as I am uncomfortable talking about some Comanche spiritual matters with non-Comanches. Thanks for your understanding.
In Cache, Oklahoma there is a fairly large Comanche population. Many Comanches, particularly very traditional elders, believe unequivocably in ghosts. There is no doubt in their mind. Cache is one of the old Comanche settlements that started during the reservation period (1867 -1903).
One night, a good ten years ago, I was spending the night in Cache at my friend's house after a powwow. I woke up in the middle of the night and I heard drums and people singing some really old Comanche songs in the woods behind his house. I thought that maybe people were having what we call a "49", but these weren't songs you'd normally hear at a 49 or even a powwow (I'll explain what a "49" is some other time). I also thought that maybe my friend had a CD in. I looked throughout the house and it definitely wasn't coming from the house...it was outside. I looked outside, but saw no one. I went back to sleep.
The next morning, I asked my friend if people were 49ing in the woods last night because I heard a drum and some people singing some old Comanche songs. He said, "No. You heard the ghosts. Sometimes they sing out there. Sometimes they come into the house and move things around as if they are looking at them."
I asked my grandfather about that and he said that yes, I had heard the ghosts. I didn't refute him as I think that it's a possibililty and also out of respect for grandpa. To this day, I wonder if it was indeed the ghosts of Comanches long past gone, alive people singing far from the house and in the stillness of the night the voices traveled, a figment of my imagination or one of those waking dreams. I honestly don't know.
Last edited by Fullback32; 07-20-2010 at 03:07 PM..
Wasn't it our dear MysticPHD who said "There is no supernatural phenomena, only misunderstood natural phenomena." or something thereabouts?
Wise words... Only a fool would say we currently know and understand all that is.
That's pretty much how I look at it. If I experienced something that seemed supernatural, I'd probably first assume it was just some facet of nature I had never heard of before, or that man had not yet figured out.
If those are Mystic's words, I'd have to agree with him. "Supernatural" means, to me, something that has actually happened, historically or observably, but clearly outside of any actual laws of operation, even if we don't yet understand them.
For instance, I'm willing to bet that we may eventually learn to streamline gravity, warp it, deflect or reflect it so that we can bomb around the universe using those grav. forces of distant planets or suns, temporarily, to slingshot our way around without burning up hydrocarbon rocket fuel. Which is just silly and inefficient anyhow,...
But to suggest that some wizard could arbitrarily snap his fingers and make different things happen without apparatus or processes, make things move about, catch fire, disappear or turn into gold/lead/water/wine?
Nope. Not gonna happen. Not "super - natural". Like the kinds of things attributed to the Abrahamic God.
This does not have to mean God. It can include karma, reincarnation, spirits, impersonal supernatural forces (like the Tao), magic, and so forth. It can also include the elements of Western religion like God, Miracles, Heaven, and Hell. I'm not voting in this poll to avoid biasing, etc.
I think most atheists here are rational-materialist or metaphysical naturalist (fancy way of saying "No God and also nothing supernatural of any kind.") but I thought I'd put this up there in case I'm wrong.
In the very broad definition of "supernatural" in your post...yes, I most certainly do:
The OTHER-WORLDLY "MOJO" that would constrain otherwise reasonable individuals to devote THOOOOOOOOOOUSANDS of hours of their precious lives to the debate of, entities they don't believe exist and writings they equate to fairytales...is DEFINITELY supernatural.
It is proof-positive that either:
1. They are all missing a few marbles. OR
2. They are being acted upon by some "supernatural type" force.
I believe in the supernatural the same way I believe in gods....Not at all.
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I just don't know. I know a lot of people have thought they have seen ghosts or talked to dead relatives or had out of body experiences or etc etc... I don't recall ever having experienced the supernatural at any time in my life - but I'm not going to completely discount everyone else's experiences. Do I think there are most likely logical explanations for most things - yes. But I would not rule out the possiblity of forces beyond our understanding.
no way.
