Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If god is all powerful, all knowing and ever present, why would s/he require worship from man? Isn't that requirement like me requiring worship from my pet fish?
I think God doesn't need us to worship him, but it's good for us. Most of what he commands us to do is for our own good. I think being grateful for the good things in our life helps us to be happier.
Are you asserting that ethical systems exist SOLELY because of God? if this assertion is accepted argumento, then it leads to a contradiction.
No. As plainly stated, OBJECTIVE moral values cannot exist if there is no God. Without a Transcendent Law Giver there logically can be no transcendent law and morality is then reduced to relativity i.e., personal preference. To presume objective right and wrong and accept such "argumento" under a relativistic moral framework not only "leads to a contradiction," it is complete nonsense.
I think God doesn't need us to worship him, but it's good for us. Most of what he commands us to do is for our own good. I think being grateful for the good things in our life helps us to be happier.
YOU are the first person to ever answer this question with a philosophically supportable answer!!! Kudos...
No. As plainly stated, OBJECTIVE moral values cannot exist if there is no God. Without a Transcendent Law Giver there logically can be no transcendent law and morality is then reduced to relativity i.e., personal preference. To presume objective right and wrong and accept such "argumento" under a relativistic moral framework not only "leads to a contradiction," it is complete nonsense.
In other words, somebody [sic] had to make the rules??
That, my friend, is the basis of the Greek concept of logos.
The concept of logos does not necessitate that God exists--only that s/he existed at one time...however, many thinkers have used this idea to start an analysis leading to support for diesism.
In other words, somebody [sic] had to make the rules??
An entity had to make the rules. A Transcendent Entity with the authority to make rules that apply to all humanity. That's how we get to OBJECTIVE moral values. If you know of any other way, please feel free to educate me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley
That, my friend, is the basis of the Greek concept of logos.
The concept of logos does not necessitate that God exists--only that s/he existed at one time...however, many thinkers have used this idea to start an analysis leading to support for deism.
If God only "existed at one time" or exists but is uninterested in his creatures, then, logically, we humans would be free to make our own rules - would we not? So, once again, we would be back to the concept of relative/personal preference morality. No God = no OBJECTIVE moral values.
If God only "existed at one time" or exists but is uninterested in his creatures, then, logically, we humans would be free to make our own rules - would we not? So, once again, we would be back to the concept of relative/personal preference morality. No God = no OBJECTIVE moral values.
That's true if and only if moral rules are not part of mankinds fundamental makeup--as "in the DNA" for an example.
"Why does the omnipotent God, knowing that there are tens of thousands of men, women, and children starving to death in a parched land, simply let them waste away and die when all that is needed is rain?"
The story of Christianity is like this.
God sets up laws to rule everything, including this universe, humans and angels. Whoever violate the Law will be driven out of God's Kingdom. Adam sinned ans was driven out of God's Kingdom, since then humans are not inside God's Kingdom, they need to pass the final judgment to make a return.
And since planet earth is not a formal part of God's Kingdom, anything could happen. Anything could happen whenever people are not inside God's Kingdom. It is similar to the wildness full of wolves such that His sheep will return when called.
No. As plainly stated, OBJECTIVE moral values cannot exist if there is no God. Without a Transcendent Law Giver there logically can be no transcendent law and morality is then reduced to relativity i.e., personal preference. To presume objective right and wrong and accept such "argumento" under a relativistic moral framework not only "leads to a contradiction," it is complete nonsense.
Actually there is really no right and wrong in the Christian morality system either.
Apparently something is only good if god decrees it, not for the fact that it's actually good.
For example, Abraham sacrificing his son, or god ordering armies to exterminate another tribe.
All of a sudden, because god said go sacrifice your son, it is moral. I've actually talked with a few christian friends over this, and they said if god told them to kill their child or someone close to them,and if they knew without a doubt it was god, they would do it.
That scares me.
So how would you know that god won't start a new era of revelation and change the "moral laws"?
God sets up laws to rule everything, including this universe, humans and angels. Whoever violate the Law will be driven out of God's Kingdom. Adam sinned ans was driven out of God's Kingdom, since then humans are not inside God's Kingdom, they need to pass the final judgment to make a return.
And since planet earth is not a formal part of God's Kingdom, anything could happen. Anything could happen whenever people are not inside God's Kingdom. It is similar to the wildness full of wolves such that His sheep will return when called.
I don't know many sheep that just return when they are called. That's what a shepherd is for.
Only in your explanation it seems that Jesus the "shepherd" if you will, will not do anything to rescue the sheep but sit there and call them
That's true if and only if moral rules are not part of mankinds fundamental makeup--as "in the DNA" for an example.
It may surprise you to learn that I agree with the notion that morality is basically "preprogrammed" into all of us. The Bible confirms as much.
...but how do you arrive at OBJECTIVE moral values via "DNA" if there is no God? I may interpret my "DNA" values by concluding that homosexuality is wrong. Another person may interpret their "DNA" values by concluding that homosexuality is okay. In such an instance, how would we determine the absolute OBJECTIVE right and wrong concerning the issue of homosexuality?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
