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Old 06-26-2007, 02:45 PM
 
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If Islam is all about peace and living in harmony with your neighbor, how do you explain the actions of the founder of the Muslim religion? How do you justify the fact when Muhammad attempted to create a peaceful religion in Mecca and was unsuccessful in converting Jews to Islam he declared jihad and went on a blood thirsty campaign of conversion. The Quran is split in two parts, the first of which covers the years in which Muhammad was peaceful and tolerant while he was in Mecca and the second part being the time in Medina which was violent and aggressive.

Muhammad himself told his followers, "Who relinqueshes his faith, kill him. I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they testify there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."

How do you justify the versus in Surah 9:5 which states "Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every strategem."

or Surah 5:33 which states "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger, and strive with might and main for michief through the land is: execution, or crucifixtion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter."

or Surah 5:51 which states, "O you who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians as friends and protectors: they are but friend and protector to each other. And he amongst you that turn to them is of them."

or Surah 9:30 which states, "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the Son of Allah . . . Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded from the truth."

The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity. As Mark Gabriel said, "For Jesus, God is a loving father; for Muhammad Allah is a demanding master. This description sets the tone regarding love for all their other relationships . . . Allah finds new believers who will serve him better. In contrast, God the father searches for the one lost lamb until He finds it and brings it home rejoicing. This is the difference between Allah and God."

1 John 4:16 "God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."
Jer. 33:3 Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and might things, which you do not know."

Christ is about love, especially for your enemy for it is easy to love those who love you but hard to love those who hate you. In fact Christ even healed the Roman soldier who was injured trying to arrest Christ and Christ commanded his apostles not to defend him against the Romans for he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. Muhammads track record would indicate a very different outcome had he been places in the same situation as Christ.

People say that Islam is about peace and tolerance but a tree is known by its fruits. It was Ayatollah Khomeini who declared: "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah." 1400 years of violence, attrition, murder, bloodshed, and outright hatred for Jews and Christians would tend to support this idea. You say that fundamentalists are the one's responsible for the violence and terrorist activity. Fundamentalism is defined as a usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles by the American Heritage Dictionary. Based on the evidence these fundamentalists are by definition doing exactly as they should according to the Quran and are simply devoute followers of the examples set forth in the Quran and by Muhammad.

There is absolutely no way these religions can ever be compatible but luckily Christians will still love their enemies because that is what Christ taught.

Last edited by brittZ; 06-26-2007 at 03:01 PM..
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Austin Texas
668 posts, read 81,850 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by brittZ View Post
If Islam is all about peace and living in harmony with your neighbor, how do you explain the actions of the founder of the Muslim religion? How do you justify the fact when Muhammad attempted to create a peaceful religion in Mecca and was unsuccessful in converting Jews to Islam he declared jihad and went on a blood thirsty campaign of conversion. The Quran is split in two parts, the first of which covers the years in which Muhammad was peaceful and tolerant while he was in Mecca and the second part being the time in Medina which was violent and aggressive.

Muhammad himself told his followers, "Who relinqueshes his faith, kill him. I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they testify there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."

How do you justify the versus in Surah 9:5 which states "Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every strategem."

or Surah 5:33 which states "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger, and strive with might and main for michief through the land is: execution, or crucifixtion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter."

or Surah 5:51 which states, "O you who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians as friends and protectors: they are but friend and protector to each other. And he amongst you that turn to them is of them."

or Surah 9:30 which states, "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the Son of Allah . . . Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded from the truth."

The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity. As Mark Gabriel said, "For Jesus, God is a loving father; for Muhammad Allah is a demanding master. This description sets the tone regarding love for all their other relationships . . . Allah finds new believers who will serve him better. In contrast, God the father searches for the one lost lamb until He finds it and brings it home rejoicing. This is the difference between Allah and God."

1 John 4:16 "God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."
Jer. 33:3 Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and might things, which you do not know."

There is no way these two religions can be reconciled. Allah, god of Islam will not allow his followers to accept Christians or recognize the divinity of Christ and the human embodiment of God the Father.

Islam has a 1400 year history of bloodshed and violence which was started and taught by Muhammed despite the fact that he came several hundred years after Christ taught that we should love our neighbor and our enemy. In fact Christ even healed the Roman soldier who was injured trying to arrest Christ and Christ commanded his apostles not to defend him against the Romans for he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

People say that Islam is about peace and tolerance but a tree is known by its fruits. It was Ayatollah Khomeini who declared: "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah." 1400 years of violence, attrition, murder, bloodshed, and outright hatred for Jews and Christians would tend to support this idea. You say that fundamentalists are the one's responsible for the violence and terrorist activity. Fundamentalism is defined as A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism by the American Heritage Dictionary. If it is only the fundamentalists who are violent in Islam, I would say the non-fundamentalists are by definition denying Islam or need to start speaking out loudly against the "fundamentalists" who are following the fundamental principals Muhammad founded in the Quran.

There is absolutely no way these religions can ever be compatible but luckily Christians will still love their enemies because that is what Christ taught.
The Christians have killed at least as many Muslims and Jews throughout history.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:02 PM
 
508 posts, read 1,142,926 times
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Originally Posted by Trebek View Post
The Christians have killed at least as many Muslims and Jews throughout history.
Not at the command of Christ they haven't.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,713 posts, read 2,950,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brittZ View Post
Not at the command of Christ they haven't.
And muslims have not killed at the command of Mohammed or Allah, either.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:14 PM
 
508 posts, read 1,142,926 times
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Originally Posted by DCNative View Post
And muslims have not killed at the command of Mohammed or Allah, either.
The Quran and the example set forth from Muhammad would say different. The evidence is there and cannot be denied. Muhammad himself became a violent brutal killer when the Jews would not submit to Allah and Muslims have been killing Jews ever since. However, I do not wish to debate this. I gave examples as to why it is impossible IMO to be both a Muslim and a Christian, which is what the thread is about.

Last edited by brittZ; 06-26-2007 at 04:23 PM..
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Austin Texas
668 posts, read 81,850 times
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Originally Posted by brittZ View Post
Not at the command of Christ they haven't.
Agreed. They killed because of intolerant dogmatist's who ruin the intent of Christ's message to the world.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,713 posts, read 2,950,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brittZ View Post
The Quran and the example set forth from Muhammad would say different. The evidence is there and cannot be denied.
I could say the same about The Church during the mideval years... the Crusades, yes? the spread of christianity? very violent.

Let's face it... we can go in circles and circles about this forever.

Personally, I don't give a rats a$$ about what happened 2000 years ago as it doesn't affect me today, though it makes for a good story reading. I'm not even a religious person (albeit a spiritual one). Anyone asks me what religion I am, I say "thats between me and God".

lastly, if you think only and all muslims are violent... ask yourself this question: Was Hitler a Muslim?
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Northern California
1,587 posts, read 2,738,336 times
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Just popping in to say that the thread has gotton way off topic. There is no way you can be a true Christian & Muslim at the same time because of the diety of Chrsit. If you want to pick and choose what parts of the two religions you want to adhere to then...sure you can be both.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 367,834 times
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Back to the original thread topic, please!
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,130 posts, read 1,499,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brittZ View Post
If Islam is all about peace and living in harmony with your neighbor, how do you explain the actions of the founder of the Muslim religion? How do you justify the fact when Muhammad attempted to create a peaceful religion in Mecca and was unsuccessful in converting Jews to Islam he declared jihad and went on a blood thirsty campaign of conversion. The Quran is split in two parts, the first of which covers the years in which Muhammad was peaceful and tolerant while he was in Mecca and the second part being the time in Medina which was violent and aggressive.

Muhammad himself told his followers, "Who relinqueshes his faith, kill him. I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they testify there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."

How do you justify the versus in Surah 9:5 which states "Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every strategem."

or Surah 5:33 which states "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger, and strive with might and main for michief through the land is: execution, or crucifixtion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter."

or Surah 5:51 which states, "O you who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians as friends and protectors: they are but friend and protector to each other. And he amongst you that turn to them is of them."

or Surah 9:30 which states, "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the Son of Allah . . . Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded from the truth."

The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity. As Mark Gabriel said, "For Jesus, God is a loving father; for Muhammad Allah is a demanding master. This description sets the tone regarding love for all their other relationships . . . Allah finds new believers who will serve him better. In contrast, God the father searches for the one lost lamb until He finds it and brings it home rejoicing. This is the difference between Allah and God."

1 John 4:16 "God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."
Jer. 33:3 Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and might things, which you do not know."

Christ is about love, especially for your enemy for it is easy to love those who love you but hard to love those who hate you. In fact Christ even healed the Roman soldier who was injured trying to arrest Christ and Christ commanded his apostles not to defend him against the Romans for he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. Muhammads track record would indicate a very different outcome had he been places in the same situation as Christ.

People say that Islam is about peace and tolerance but a tree is known by its fruits. It was Ayatollah Khomeini who declared: "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah." 1400 years of violence, attrition, murder, bloodshed, and outright hatred for Jews and Christians would tend to support this idea. You say that fundamentalists are the one's responsible for the violence and terrorist activity. Fundamentalism is defined as a usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles by the American Heritage Dictionary. Based on the evidence these fundamentalists are by definition doing exactly as they should according to the Quran and are simply devoute followers of the examples set forth in the Quran and by Muhammad.

There is absolutely no way these religions can ever be compatible but luckily Christians will still love their enemies because that is what Christ taught.
The bible, in places is full of passages that condone violence just as much however there is one major difference which I feel has contributed greatly to the variations of islam nations versus christian nations...that being that christ established the two kingdoms, the kingdom of man and then the one of god. This gave rise, at least in part, to our current relation of seperation of church and state. Yes...thats right a good many scholars believe that secularism was helped in its creation by christianity. You don't find this in muslim countries. I believe this mixing of religious and governing power aided in the corruption of a potentially peaceful religion, after all...even if the religion is inherently violent it need not be so...so long as its followers arent.
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