Is It Possible For Religion and Logic Co-Exist? (religious leader, belief, religions)
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I have no problem with intelligent design. But I don't think it was all created at once, I think it evolved slowly over time. The first animals began hundreds of millions of years ago and evolved to this point. Did a Devine Creator cause it? Looks like a good possibility considering the obvious genious behind the creation.
Who created the Devine Creator? Who knows? I'm just a small part of the Cosmos so I don't claim to know.
I mean "Divine"... My spelling ability has diminished with age!
Um, how's this. While certain aspects of religion are beyond the scope of logic, most aspects of faith-based thinking are soundly logical.
EXACTLY!!!
That is what I have been saying. Theists assume the existence of god. This is not logical. Pretty much every step after that is logical. It all follows from an erroneous, illogical, premise.
As previously stated, the similarities between the species show me a common designer. In other words, God created the Earth, God created air, God created animals to live here on the Earth with air and so all animals(let's just stay with mammals for now) on this earth with this air need lungs to extract the oxygen from that air. It's truly a logical process, in my opinion. For evolution to be true, I'd think there would be multiple respiratory systems extracting air as various species evolved along the branches of evolution.
There aren't. Which logically tells me that God knew and still knows exactly what systems to put in place to maintain the life He created.
Another fine example of logic. No sarcasm intended on my part at all.
Ok, I will (mainly) stick with mammals, although I do reserve the right to bring in reptiles and stuff later to illustrate additional points.
All mammals have lungs. I think that all mammals have the bones for 5 digits, although in some these bones may not be completely developed. I say common descent, you day design.
How about methods of giving birth? Using your hypothesis, common design elements should be present in all mammals, like lungs.
But we see marsupials giving birth to live, undeveloped young that must further develop in a poucn. We see most mammals giving birth to relatively developed young that must be weaned. And we see the platypus actually laying eggs. Why the three different designs for giving birth?
How about dolphins and whales? Why give them lungs? That actually is not a great design for an aquatic creature. How come the designer did not give them gills like fish?
The eye comment is relevant across kingdoms. Why were different designs used for different species eyes?
Ok, here is another potato in the kettle to stew over. Why is the earth the only inhabitable planet in this entire system? Why is the air just the right mix of 78% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon with a mix of other gases? How is it that our position in this system such that our gravity keeps us from floating away or being pulverized by the pressure? How is it that as a result of our position, we receive just the right amount of sunlight?
This and many other things are proof enough for me that we didn't just explode out of thin air. I know that God created all things and He had His purpose when He created us within the parameters of our earth and our solar system.
The conditions amenable to water based life did not exist for most of the Earth's history so when they became available life got started and evolved from there through some very difficult times. There is/was no Devine intervention needed for this to happen.
Ok, here is another potato in the kettle to stew over. Why is the earth the only inhabitable planet in this entire system? Why is the air just the right mix of 78% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon with a mix of other gases? How is it that our position in this system such that our gravity keeps us from floating away or being pulverized by the pressure? How is it that as a result of our position, we receive just the right amount of sunlight?
This and many other things are proof enough for me that we didn't just explode out of thin air. I know that God created all things and He had His purpose when He created us within the parameters of our earth and our solar system.
There are some very simple answers to these questions, none of which require god.
Why is the atmosphere the mix that it is? Why not? Or, lets say that it was actually 74% nitrogen, 23% oxygen...whatever. We simply would have evolved to need that particular mix. Or another. We adapt to our environment, there is no need for our environment to be any particular thing.
For gravity, same thing. For a lighter or heavier gravity, we would have evolved weaker or stronger bones, as applicable. No big deal there.
Remember, there are billions of stars in the galaxy. The likelihood is that there are multiple planets around each star. It really only takes one to be in the right area to sustain life for us to be here. If earth did not sustain life, we would not be typing away at each other. But somebody else on a different planet might.
So in essence, are you saying that if we traveled to Mars or Venus, we could adapt to the conditions there?
That's absolute rot Urban...and I suspect you are intelligent enough to know it's rot. Of course we couldn't because we have evolved to live in our present environment so if we were suddenly all transported to Mars tomorrow, we would all die. What's being said is if our pesent environment changed over millions of years to be the same as Mars is now, we would adapt to that environmental change.
What you Christians don't seem to grasp is that species don't change overnight or in one or two decades, or even a few hundred years...it takes millions of years! Assume that from tomorrow, the oxygen in our atmosphere began to decrease by a miniscule amount every 10,000 years. It is probable that over the next 10,000,000, humans will evolve to need less and less oxygen. Perhaps to the extent that we could survive on extremely small amounts of oxygen....or perhaps none at all!!
So in essence, are you saying that if we traveled to Mars or Venus, we could adapt to the conditions there?
No. I am saying that if life had originally evolved on Mars or Venus, it would look very different from us, and would think that Earth was a particularly inhospitable planet.
I will loosely relate an argument put forward originally (I think) by Carl Sagan.
1. There are about 70 sextillion (7 with 22 0s following) stars in the universe.
2. Around these stars there are multiple planets. Lets say 5 planets/star. This makes 350 sextillion planets
3. If there is a one in ten million chance that a planet can sustain life, that means that there are about 35,000,000,000,000,000 potential planets with life.
4. If only one in ten million of them actually has life on it, that means that there are still 3,500,000,000 (3.5 billion) planets with life on them.
5. If only one in ten million has advanced life on it, that still leaves 350 planets with advanced life forms.
We are simply one of them. Now, we may not be able to live on any of the 350 other than our particular one. Some might have a bit too much gravity, others corrosive atmospheres, others with too much carbon monoxide. But the point is that the numbers in the universe are so large as to make it possible, and even probable, that life arose somewhere.
Look around. You are here.
There is not god needed for any of this.
I could go a bit further, and say that even if you are not swayed by the numbers argument, and still need to believe in god, none of this would indicate the christian god for any reason.
C'mon plad and stretch; I thought the scientist in the two of you would have said that we could. So you guys don't think that colonization of Mars is feasible?
I found this quote online which states: On March 21, 2007, at JPL's High-Tech Conference for Small Business, NASA Deputy Administrator Shana Dale said, "We also hope to discover if Mars can provide a second home for humans – an extension of our civilization – 40 million miles from Earth."
Someone must think it's possible.
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