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Old 09-25-2010, 10:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
If morality is objective, why do so many of the OT laws no longer apply to modern Christians?
The 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) in the Bible are only binding on those at Sinai, their descendents and those who voluntarily accept them through conversion and therefore were not and are not binding on Gentiles, who are only bound by the 7 Noahide Commandments.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:14 PM
 
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Default "Memo to Hawking: There's Still Room for God"

In an Opinion essay, "Memo to Hawking: There's Still Room for God", published yesterday (Friday, September 24) in The Wall Street Journal, according to Roger Scruton, "Neither Kant nor Einstein thought physics explained everything."

"If Mr. Hawking is right, the answer to the question 'What created the universe?' is 'The laws of physics.' But what created the laws of physics? How is it that these strange and powerful laws, and these laws alone, apply to the world?"


Roger Scruton, a philosopher, is a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington.
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Old 09-25-2010, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Kent, Ohio
3,429 posts, read 2,723,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
I'm still curious as to what your assessment of Jesus is.
I see no more reason to believe in the divinity of Jesus than to believe in the divinity of hundreds of other gods. I see no good reason to believe that Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, raised the dead, arose from the dead, turned water into wine, was born of a virgin, or saved our souls by dying for our sins.

Having said this, I would also say that I would not be shocked if some or all of these ideas about the life of Jesus turned out to be true to some extent, or in some way. Life is deeply mysterious, and there may be ways in which things might be true beyond the mundane concepts of truth and reality as we currently understand these things. Jungians, for example, often interpret Christian symbolism in fascinating ways, suggesting possible psychological truths buried in the mythical stories of Christianity and other religions.

I would be shocked if it turned out to be the case that Christian mythology were literally true in a staight-forward historical sense, just as I would be shocked if Greek mythology, or Norse mythology turned out to be historically true. In my mind there is just nothing special about the Christian stories that make them seem more believable than the other stories.

Some Christians have told me that I just need to pray sincerely and with an open mind. If I say that I have done this, then they say that I obviously just didn't do it right - I am deceiving myself, closing my mind to God, etc. I simply see no reason to believe them.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:57 AM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,621,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
I see no more reason to believe in the divinity of Jesus than to believe in the divinity of hundreds of other gods. I see no good reason to believe that Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, raised the dead, arose from the dead, turned water into wine, was born of a virgin, or saved our souls by dying for our sins.
Then you believe Jesus to be an actual historical figure? Therefore, he was most probably either a liar or lunatic?
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:42 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,116,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan View Post
In an Opinion essay, "Memo to Hawking: There's Still Room for God", published yesterday (Friday, September 24) in The Wall Street Journal, according to Roger Scruton, "Neither Kant nor Einstein thought physics explained everything."

"If Mr. Hawking is right, the answer to the question 'What created the universe?' is 'The laws of physics.' But what created the laws of physics? How is it that these strange and powerful laws, and these laws alone, apply to the world?"


Roger Scruton, a philosopher, is a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington.
Exactly. The problem with people like Hawking is they worship their own brains, and are so myopic about it that they cannot pause for even one second to ask, "Where did that brain originate from?"

I'm not sure if this is the case in Judaism but in Christian thought the "sin of pride" is the greatest sin of all. Hawking is an excellent illustration of this principle in action. His main problem is that he sees his own consciousness as the centre of the universe. If he had any sense of proportion whatsoever he would realise he wasn't that important in the scheme of things -- and so would those who idolize him and elevate him to some sort supreme authority for that matter.

There is a reason why the Lord placed the prohibition against idolatry FIRST in the Decalogue.
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,165 posts, read 26,122,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Exactly. The problem with people like Hawking is they worship their own brains, and are so myopic about it that they cannot pause for even one second to ask, "Where did that brain originate from?"

I'm not sure if this is the case in Judaism but in Christian thought the "sin of pride" is the greatest sin of all. Hawking is an excellent illustration of this principle in action. His main problem is that he sees his own consciousness as the centre of the universe. If he had any sense of proportion whatsoever he would realise he wasn't that important in the scheme of things -- and so would those who idolize him and elevate him to some sort supreme authority for that matter.

There is a reason why the Lord placed the prohibition against idolatry FIRST in the Decalogue.
So you know how Mr Hawking thinks of himself?
Do you not consider the difference between pride and confidence?
You are also accusing people you don't know of 'idolizing' someone when they may be simply admiring and/or respecting him
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:22 AM
 
9,341 posts, read 29,622,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
There is a reason why the Lord placed the prohibition against idolatry FIRST in the Decalogue.
Actually, it's second.

The general perception in this country is that the "Ten Commandments" are part of the common religious heritage of Judaism, Catholicism and Protestantism, part of the sacred scriptures that we all share, and should not be controversial. But most people involved in the debate seem to have missed the fact that these three religions divide up the commandments in different ways!

Judaism, unlike Catholicism and Protestantism, considers "I am the L-rd, your G-d" to be the first "commandment". Catholicism, unlike Judaism and Protestantism, considers coveting property to be separate from coveting a spouse. Protestantism, unlike Judaism and Catholicism, considers the prohibition against idolatry to be separate from the prohibition against worshipping other gods.

According to Judaism, the Aseret ha-Dibrot (Ten Utterances) identify the following ten categories of mitzvot. Please remember that these are categories of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments), which according to Jewish tradition are binding only upon Jews. The only Mitzvot binding upon Gentiles are the 7 Noahic Commandments.

1. Belief in G-d
This category is derived from the declaration in Ex. 20:2 beginning, "I am the L-rd, your G-d..."

2. Prohibition of Improper Worship
This category is derived from Ex. 20:3-6, beginning, "You shall not have other gods..." It encompasses within it the prohibition against the worship of other gods as well as the prohibition of improper forms of worship of the one true G-d.

3. Prohibition of Oaths
This category is derived from Ex. 20:7, beginning, "You shall not take the name of the L-rd your G-d in vain..." This includes prohibitions against perjury, breaking or delaying the performance of vows or promises, and speaking G-d's name or swearing unnecessarily.

4. Shabbat
This category is derived from Ex. 20:8-11, beginning, "Remember the sabbath day..." It encompasses all mitzvot related to shabbat, holidays, or sacred time.

5. Respect for Parents and Teachers
This category is derived from Ex. 20:12, beginning, "Honor your father and mother..."

6. Prohibition of Murder
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not murder."

7. Prohibition of Adultery
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not commit adultery."

8. Prohibition of Theft
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not steal." It includes within it both outright robbery as well as various forms of theft by deception and unethical business practices. It also includes kidnapping.

9. Prohibition of False Witness
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

10. Prohibition of Coveting
This category is derived from Ex. 20:14, beginning, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..."

Source: Judaism 101: Aseret ha-Dibrot: The "Ten Commandments"
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:24 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,116,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
So you know how Mr Hawking thinks of himself?
Do you not consider the difference between pride and confidence?
You are also accusing people you don't know of 'idolizing' someone when they may be simply admiring and/or respecting him
Mr Hawking's opinion of himself is clear from his behavior--he is full of PRIDE. Those who are full of PRIDE don't recognize this fact for that is the very nature of pride.

You and I probably have a slightly different understanding of the term "idolatry." Our definitions will probably never "meet" LOL.
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,165 posts, read 26,122,269 times
Reputation: 27898
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Mr Hawking's opinion of himself is clear from his behavior--he is full of PRIDE. Those who are full of PRIDE don't recognize this fact for that is the very nature of pride.

You and I probably have a slightly different understanding of the term "idolatry." Our definitions will probably never "meet" LOL.
I susppose that you are simply confident in your evaluation even though some might say you sound very prideful in your ability to ascertain how someone you don't even know thinks and feels based on few media interviews.
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:33 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,116,063 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan View Post
Actually, it's second.

The general perception in this country is that the "Ten Commandments" are part of the common religious heritage of Judaism, Catholicism and Protestantism, part of the sacred scriptures that we all share, and should not be controversial. But most people involved in the debate seem to have missed the fact that these three religions divide up the commandments in different ways!

Judaism, unlike Catholicism and Protestantism, considers "I am the L-rd, your G-d" to be the first "commandment". Catholicism, unlike Judaism and Protestantism, considers coveting property to be separate from coveting a spouse. Protestantism, unlike Judaism and Catholicism, considers the prohibition against idolatry to be separate from the prohibition against worshipping other gods.

According to Judaism, the Aseret ha-Dibrot (Ten Utterances) identify the following ten categories of mitzvot. Please remember that these are categories of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments), which according to Jewish tradition are binding only upon Jews. The only Mitzvot binding upon Gentiles are the 7 Noahic commandments.

1. Belief in G-d
This category is derived from the declaration in Ex. 20:2 beginning, "I am the L-rd, your G-d..."

2. Prohibition of Improper Worship
This category is derived from Ex. 20:3-6, beginning, "You shall not have other gods..." It encompasses within it the prohibition against the worship of other gods as well as the prohibition of improper forms of worship of the one true G-d.

3. Prohibition of Oaths
This category is derived from Ex. 20:7, beginning, "You shall not take the name of the L-rd your G-d in vain..." This includes prohibitions against perjury, breaking or delaying the performance of vows or promises, and speaking G-d's name or swearing unnecessarily.

4. Shabbat
This category is derived from Ex. 20:8-11, beginning, "Remember the sabbath day..." It encompasses all mitzvot related to shabbat, holidays, or sacred time.

5. Respect for Parents and Teachers
This category is derived from Ex. 20:12, beginning, "Honor your father and mother..."

6. Prohibition of Murder
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not murder."

7. Prohibition of Adultery
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not commit adultery."

8. Prohibition of Theft
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not steal." It includes within it both outright robbery as well as various forms of theft by deception and unethical business practices. It also includes kidnapping.

9. Prohibition of False Witness
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

10. Prohibition of Coveting
This category is derived from Ex. 20:14, beginning, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..."

Source: Judaism 101: Aseret ha-Dibrot: The "Ten Commandments"
Thank you for the clarificaton, Walter. I learned the commandment as first but in the days of the internet I should have verified before I posted what I did. I will never make that mistake again.

I have been taught as a Catholic that the elevation of human reason above God's revelation is a form of idolatry. Is this also true in Judaism?
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