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So there was advanced warning, time to build an ark?
Have you read the Bible account of the flood? Not only was there pre-warning, and enough time to build the Ark, there were specific dimensions and techniques given by God for Noah on how to build the ark...
A) We now know that we can track mitochondrial DNA/RNA from an original source. It follows the mother's side, is not nearly so open to mutation, and is not influenced by the male side's genetic variations.
B) As well, independent of that science, we can also now pretty accurately date artifacts by the latest Carbon 14 techniques, as well as fission tracking, Potassium-Argon, laser-stimulated X-Ray fluorescence and a dozen other well-validated methods which, oddly, seem to confirm each other when the same artifact is independently blind-tested. Within carefully stated limits as always.
C) Further, we have archeological/paleontological digs where the visible and chemically determined geology, as well as the simple facts about what level we find the items at, and the other things we find alongside them (animal bones, tools, plant remains, etc.) absolutely confirm the relative dates ("this village was built after that one.. and it's further east")
D) We can then assemble a reasonable and relativechronology of events that involve the migration and origins of aboriginal tribes.
E) Through those now established dating methods plus irrefutable geological evidence, we can then arrive at some basic dates and event horizons to various elements. Time and further detailed investigations coupled with good old logical deduction lead us to an accurate actual time line.
How interesting that we thus find and conclude:
1) That MtDNA/RNA follows from a single original source that came out of Africa. It then shows up, reliably, in populations that cross the Himalayan highlands, through China and Japan, across the Bering Sea, through the northern First Nations people in Arctic Canada, and then down into the relatively recent American Plains native populations.
2) Paleontological digs find a chronologically tied progression of ancient tribal technologies that follow along the exactsame routes.
3) Independent validation and dating of those items accurately follows a progression of their incorporation; as the knowledge advanced with the new species, so did it's accompanying technologies. Amazing, huh?
4) Independently verified studies also prove that these societies' technologies attended the peoples as they advanced, and that the further east we go, the later these technologies and the places we find them in.
In other words, the cultures and technologies slowly advanced eastward, validated by all these related techniques. Geological studies confirm this as we find these later cultural markers at more recent depths, closer to the surface. As well, we also find that relentless cultural progression was understandably slowed by gross geological events, readily evident in the geological column.
Again, it all falls into place, as the truth so often does.
So...in conclusion: how again did this all happen one week, or after Noah disgorged two or four of them on a Turkish mountain top a mere 2500 years ago? How's that work again? Logically I mean.
One can ignore the totality of all this co-supportive but independent evidence, or, since it's unavoidable and irrefutable as it's now presented, one can then claim, hands on ears, eyes tightly squeezed shut, that "it was all cooked up" in the minds of literally tens of millions of honest scientists who were suddenly recipients of a vast, global conspiratorial e-mail.. (Oh wait; they didn't have e-mails back 20 years ago, when this was all initiated.)
Must have been quite the load of snail mail down at the Post Office, and not a single one of those conspiratorial letters ever found it's way into the hands of a Christian whistle-blower. Odd indeed.
Not to mention that modern science has refined all the investigative technologies, and we can now reasonably predict what should be found if such a trans-migration did occur.
Guess what we find when we go looking for those markers? You guessed it. Confirmation of the hypothesis, which leads to a fact-filled fully vetted "theory" [NOTE: which is not a "silly unsupported hunch" as is so often erroneously and purposefully presented].
Ahhh.. to have this level of assured, measured and validated accuracy, alongside a growing technical complexity and topped off with masses of independent and yet completely corroborated evidence on your side, huh? It's entirely reasonable that "science" (as but a verifiable means to answer simple questions) is getting a bit smug, don't you think?
The truth has that effect.
Blindly believing in science is as bad as blindly believing in God...
I was told just this year that the science behind Anthropogenic Global Warming was settled, by many scientists who should have known...
known better than to say such a thing.
Science is constant test and experimentation. If, as Mircea states, the experiments can not be replicated, it is not science at all...
I am not going to debate the "science" behind your post, but I will ask you one question...
If we are to believe that life came out of Africa, like you say has been proven, where did that life come from? Meaning, how did life begin in the first place?
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill
cruxan , i'm not christian
i believe in the flood story becuase it was mentioned in quran , but quran never mentioned that this flood was universal , so it dosn't contradict scince with any means
so that i disagree with you
scince didn't trumps my divine scripture yet
i would bet a million dollars that a universal, global flood did a occur at some time in the past, of the 4.5 billion years of the evolution of planet earth. with all the astroid impacts that are detectable from space based satellites that are visible on land, just imagine how many that have hit the oceans in the past that have yet to be discovered, science didn't even discover that the yellow stone super volcano was a super volano untill the 1980's, same with the toba eruption in indonesia..
if and astroid, comet the size of say purto rico or bigger had hit the oceans in a deep area like 2 miles deep when all the land masses of pangia were connected, yes it probaly would have caused a global flood. and it was not caused by divine intervention, purly just a radom event like shoemaker levy 9. what do you think would have happened to planet earth if all the 28 mountain size chunks of ice and rocks had hit planet earth. a global flood would have occured. the odds are that most of them would have hit the oceans, being the oceans are 133 million square miles vs land area at 57 million..
rifleman's posts about science are always very impressive and logical.
I still don't like guns though.
I can make a very scientific argument about how crime rates go up with the rise in temperature, or how ice cream sales go up with the rise of temperature...even to the point of doing an experiment and showing it is true....
However, does that mean that temperature increases cause crimes rates to increase or that ice cream sales are caused by temperature??
Science is only as good as it's biases (not trying to imply anything about anyone here)...any scienctist knows this.
That is why so many were fooled by the junk "science" of AGW...
If we are to believe that life came out of Africa, like you say has been proven, where did that life come from? Meaning, how did life begin in the first place?
It arrived on a piece of space debris. Prove me wrong.
Blindly believing in science is as bad as blindly believing in God...
I was told just this year that the science behind Anthropogenic Global Warming was settled, by many scientists who should have known...
known better than to say such a thing.
Science is constant test and experimentation. If, as Mircea states, the experiments can not be replicated, it is not science at all...
I am not going to debate the "science" behind your post, but I will ask you one question...
If we are to believe that life came out of Africa, like you say has been proven, where did that life come from? Meaning, how did life begin in the first place?
I agree that 'blindly' believing in anything isn't a good idea but most skeptics don't just accept scientific speculations without evidence. Skeptics often discuss unproven ideas as plausible explanations but reserve final judgement until the evidence is in. For example, I don't accept the idea of superstrings as the idea is not testable but I do think it has merit as an idea; on the other hand, I accept the theory of evolution due to overwhelming evidence. Your comment puts faith in a god on par with acceptance of established scientific theories. The two are not even close as the god hypothesis does not have any credible evidence while scientific theories have heaps of evidence to back them up.
As to the question of abiogenesis, skeptics will say that we don't know. However, scientists have some good ideas that are being worked out. The following article discusses the competing ideas:
Richard Dawkins wrote about some interesting areas of research in his book "The Blind Watchmaker". It's been awhile since I read it so my memory of the details is a bit fuzzy. I can't find my copy of the book right now but I'll look for it and try to post more later.
Have you read the Bible account of the flood? Not only was there pre-warning, and enough time to build the Ark, there were specific dimensions and techniques given by God for Noah on how to build the ark...
As to the Quran version, can't answer that...
No, I have not read the bible............ zero plans to
I know the fable, I did attend parochial school for 7 years, heard all the fairy tales.
And, I was not asking what the bible said, I was asking what elwill believed, as he (she?) has apparently not drunk from the full strength kool-aid, and believes the yarn comes from a localized flood.
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