Hatred Inspired by a Loving God (genesis, America, mythology, church)

[LargeKingCat]

So I begin this inspired, directed at followers of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic diety, referred to as the "Abrahamic God" from origins of the Abrahamic tribe, called by various incarnation (Yahweh, Jehova, Allah etc)
Having read your texts, commentaries and opionions thereof, I cannot help but notice a number of followers today who refer to a sense of devotion of this diety out of Love and Commitment. I wonder then if such a loving diety can inspire such horrorific deeds, from racism to murder. We see in the Talmud an overwhelming elitist and racist agenda, one which would continue to modern times with the strife and was in Palistine; yet we see no humane or enlightened justification for this in the 21st century.
We reflect on the terror acts of 9/11 in the US and understand that a radical group initiated these acts in the name of their religion. We have seen this group continue, even causing strife and division within their own religion.
We see Christians, part of a rapidly declining movement, infighting and desperate, many claiming an elitist status, seeking a return to theocracy, a time in which history presented the dark ages and the Inquisition as a result. We see self proclaimed Christian nations waging war against Islamists, we see Jews violating international Peace treaties and we see Islamists developing nuclear weapons to use against their "enemies."

Yet what we don't see is these three movements coming together under God to solve worldly problems. We don't see enlightened behavior from pretty much any of them. We see instead a very selfish, unenlightened, fearful and elitist behavior. Each religion seems to want to make exclusive claims to this diety, as though such a diety can be owned and sold by mankind through religion. And what inspires this? Perhaps Fear? I have heard many Christians and Muslims talk of what God will do if they don't follow his dierctions to the letter. An example of this would be a certain Christian leader who a few years ago, claimed that Hurricane Katrina was God's response to New Orleans being a "sin city" What of hatred? I have heard from so many Israelis and Jews who tell me that they hate arabs, and take great pleasure in their slaughter. Such reprehensible behavior, online to Christians slaughtering Wiccans, something which their holy book seems to justify and command. Sickening, yes. And enlightened, definately not.

The Solution? First, something new and unheard of for these followers. Human Rights. A focus on humanity, human problems and the end to human suffering, as opposed to the creation of it. Radical perhaps, and in some cases, frightening but possible.

Second, a closing of ancient texts. It was suggested by Bishop Spong, whom I greatly admire, that the Bible should not be used a as a sole basis for faith because it is so outdated. I agree with that. Just because some persons in early Rome had an opinion about life and prophecy does not mean at all that it is appropriate now in the 21st century. Ancient Writers, due to limits in science, technology and the universe had limited knowledge of the world around them, compared to what we have today. They replaced this lack of knowledge with Superstiion, claiming that everything from the origins of the earth to the cause of disease were devinely handled. Today, in the 21st Century, we know better and all of us whould be doing better. More enlightened times need to be proven with a more enlightened lifestyle. I am not saying that no good will come out of ancient writings, but we need to focus entirley on the good and realized the shortcomings as what they are, superstitious based myth.

Third, the focus should be love and peace. All times, every times. This is shared by oddly enough, some anciet texts, from the Prophet Muhammed who taught (Verse 41-34) "Nor can goodness and evil be equal. Repel (evil) with that is Good: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!." and compared to Luke 6:27-28 Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you ......
Amazing how many Christians have flat out told me that no, they will not love anyone who is a muslim, and Jews who told me that they will love no one who is not a jew. Yikes ! is that the legacy of these faiths ?

We will of course, as humans find a way to solve these problems. And that solutions will not come from looking for some invisible, external savior to rescue us. It will come from within us, working together.

It will come when we put religion and dogma aside, and instead of doing what is superstitious, doing what is right.

Years ago, I had a fantastic conversation with an Indian Man who practices Hindusm here in the United States. he told me that the best way to overcome religious bigotry and racial disharmony would be for all of us who appear different on the outside and then by living aoround each other, we will see that faith and humanity is really shared by all. We will focus, he said on the good in all religion the basic truth of love and social improvement and let that be our guiding force.
(Of course, I have told this story to Christians who say "I don't want those people around me" Again, the enlightened response would be "What can we learn from each other to make the world a better place?" )


There are some who claim that Islam is a religion of Hatred and elitism. Well, spend an hour in A certain Christian church (one that calls itself a "church of Christ") in central Texas (I can give you the address) Walk out of there and you too will be convinced that Christianity is a Hate Religion as well. Remember though that two years ago, when faced with serious health problems, it was not a Christian but a Muslim who spent his time with no regard for financial or ecclesiastical gain, talking to me and encouraging me to go forward with the healing process. I heard with my own ears, nothing but hope and encouragement from this man. Yet Many Christians would want to deny this because under our current modality of (limited) thinking, "no good can come out of anyone but us." So with this becomes our final and most important lesson: we must depolarize our thinking. The world is not "Black and White" It is not all right, all wrong, all good all evil. There is as the song goes "Good and Bad in everyone" Sadly that applies within religious communities as well. Promotion of hatred and elitism should not betolerated by any humans. The ways and means to solve humanities problems exist and reside within us. Life is not that way, and to see life in those terms is a major mistake.

Some 200 and 35 years ago, a most bold experiment took place. An enlightened nation, forming on principals of human equality and individual rights was started on the North American Continent. A most risky venture, because nothing like it had been attempted before. A government not by the Bible, or the Quran or the Torah, the Bhagtava-gita, or any tribal edict, but of by and of the people, to be maintained and administered by the will of the People for to promote "The common welfare" The welfare of the people for the people. Not for some ancient supersttition, not by and for mythology, but for the people. For the Good of the People.
And over the 234 years of this nation, which has risen to the top of the World in terms of economic and socio-political influence, has survuved much, war, economic strife and religious attacks all because the strength lies within the human choice and the basic desire to let people come first. That is, more than anything else, the reason for this success.
We as Americans are not bound or imprisoned by religious dogma or belief. We have the right to practice peacefully what we believe. We are not controlled or limited by what some ancient book says, or by what some early century Roman elitist taught other early followers. We have the right to live and learn and flourish without superstition.
BUT That right can end when our practice interferes with the rights of others.
Let me say that again, please, because that above all else is most important and must be emphasized: Our religious rights can end when those rights interfere with the rights of others. When we try to limit, imprison or discredit anyone's free choice to practice that which has been shown to them to be right for them, then that religion becomes abusive and expendable. And that can apply to any label. Or any Brand. When religion, any religion, becaome so abusive that it interferes with the rights and lives of others, then we need to rethink its place in our lives.

So what is this worth? A peaceful planet, people working together to solve problems of hunger, famine, Economics, transportation, solving problems of energy without fear of some afterlife punishment, some non-existant external savior, some retribution from a some ancient diety, and with the motivation instead being love for humanity, a desire to make this world right, a selfless, totally unselfish ideal of putting human needs first, and keeping a goal of improving the human condition without regard to dogma or superstition. People working together without regards to religion and race. That is the "enlightened" response. That is our goal as humans.
Thanks for reading.

[Mr5150]

Originally Posted by LargeKingCat

So what is this worth? A peaceful planet, people working together to solve problems of hunger, famine, Economics, transportation, solving problems of energy without fear of some afterlife punishment, some non-existant external savior, some retribution from a some ancient diety, and with the motivation instead being love for humanity, a desire to make this world right, a selfless, totally unselfish ideal of putting human needs first, and keeping a goal of improving the human condition without regard to dogma or superstition. People working together without regards to religion and race. That is the "enlightened" response. That is our goal as humans.
Thanks for reading.

Work well in the USSR and still does in North Korea!

[Sir Les]

In as much as hatred is inspired by those who instigate it...Like this:

God says tend and keep the Garden....those who do not believe do the opposite: (pollute and destroy the Garden)

Do Good onto others....goes to: (do bad onto others.)
Be truthful and honourable ...Goes to: (Lie and cheat and rob and thieve and be treaturious)

It goes on and on...because people do not see the light in the truth of God.
And it is not so much that God is hateful....it is because we rebell against the truth, and sound thinking of God....that his anger is kindled against us.

If we see the sense of the first instructions out of the Bible...and ofcourse logical thinking...to tend and keep the Garden (Planet Earth) would and should be the foremost thing on our minds....But that is not so.
If we were intelligent creatures...a Godly mind would be a God send....to act out the words already made known by God.

Are these words bad?....NO!
The words of God are for a reason...and that reason is so that a estate of being can be made, that is benefical to all living things!...if we take the first instruction literally.

So in that Bible there are alot of mindsets working to bring a kind of moral ground into being.
That certain kinds of sexual acts, and all kinds of sexual ludness are aborhant to this God entity....who claims that he or it is the creator of all living things.

So are we created in the primary accounting out of mud or dust?....atomic structure included?
In a way yes we are....So truth is born by being observant and making the right choices that benefit the whole EARTH...not the selfish mind bent to serve the immediate self.

And we now know that this planet that sustains us...is being polluted by mindless people, who do the opposite of what God said...etc.

What do you believe God is going to do...have a pow wow, dance and sing songs, while we destroy his creations?

The radical group who devised the 9/11 travisty?....is the very governing body of the USA's top secret departments!

Oh they may have used the other entities, to play out a roll...and that roll was to insight more hatred and the validity to make war...so more people die...and more sin is made.

They do not listen to God....they break every commandment, and every covenant...they make IDOLATRY and Wealth their Demi God....

That that was knocked down and destroyed is in one sense a blessing!

That they want to build a mosque on the sight or near by is also a blessing!

And if they Trust in God...and that God is the true God...then another monument of wealth is not suppose to be built....or ever should be built.

So those who put themselves into such a monument of wealth and corruption....should always fear the hand of God swiping it out of existance!

But in this 9/11 case...the underhanded military and other bands of top secret service agents, put forward a plan of none action...while counter agents were allowed to setup, and deploy that senerio.
While they held back their hands and means to deter the 9/11 attacks....?
It is not an attack if the very own Governing body allows it to be,,,and even concocked the senerion in the first place.

So who is making this hatred festor?....the ones pulling on the heart strings...saying we are free...we have liberty to do stupid things...we are righteous in our underhandedness, and corrupt way of life....
We trust in God...but do nothing God says!

Pollute and destroy, for false Profits and Gains....
And to be Drunk on the blood of the dead...as it says in scriptute is now taking place!..while they prohibite, and oppress and profane plants (Givens) and the Sowers and users of them...

There you will find the instigators of God's hatred...are the ones doing the oppostite of what God has asked we do, and the way it is to be done!
SINLESSLY.....for the greator Good of ALL LIVING THINGS....When they awaken to the truth, because the Earth is becoming so polluted, it turns ugly and uninhabitable....then it may be too late to do anything!

Once that dome of ozone and other bands of atmosphere Depletes....the suns UV light will torch the planet...and the weather will become unbareable.

Already happening....fire season....and we (Humans) are doing it all by our own acts of disobediance!

So sit back and let em destroy it all.....then they will know...WHY GOD Said What GOD said....and you will too!

Hard lessons to learn Just by reading...So the Act has to be done...so we hear, we see, and we understand it fully.

[tgnostic]

We put up walls in society too; both concrete and abstract. As I said the other day we have builders and creators. That idea depends on the virtue we know for ultimately being an error in thinking or judgment. But it does have encouragement to trust others amongst All people.

I should be constrained now at better building. But i guess not yet.

[Sir Les]

There shoud be no error in human thinking...if we learn form God....for God is Good...and Good comes from God...and in the word of God, which is in part in the Holy Bible, and surely in other books of Godly mindset...There....The very first thing God does after making everything...he shares everyting with US.
Genesis 9:3..." I Give you everything " and In that creations of God...God asks, Genesis 2:15...to tend and keep the creation....

Sharing and caring....sinlessly...sowing and growing more...in that, there is nothing in error.
Infact in order to make more...so more can live...the primary estate has to be multiplied out.
And the base of the creation has to have a foundation of origin....or a sequencial truth.

God made the plants...so the ozone and atmosphere could be, and be maintained...So here we are again at the root....of the creation....Plants, water, soil and sun/Moon..and God.
THe plants fernish us with : a living entity that provides us with Oxygen, while consuming CO2 (Atmosphere control and climatization of the planet), food, compost which makes soil, Textiles, materials, renewable fuel, Drugs and stimulants..are the other attributes.
All these attributes are with plants...and God made them and called them all Good.
And then there are the reason for other insects and living things to eat of these plants, and service to them..so they remain always in service and in seeding more of themselves!
Genesis 2:15 is our placement by God...to do!

Now that is important placement...in the whole creation / chain of life.......should we deface that? should be glorify that?...should we destroy that?..should we act on that?

These questions are now being played out...and we can see..that polluting it, only pollutes us more!
and making a IDOLIC system over it, only insights more anger over us...by God.

So it is not God who is insighting hatred...it is those who do not believe in God, and then go and undermine the clean and presteen conditions, which support all living things...and that includes those still to be born here.

If God shares...then we too should share...and the idolic system needs to be addressed and corrected!

God Gives me the right to life...and he has given me everything along with you and them.
If they want to destroy it...(atomic weaponry made and ready to be used) then let em!
If they want to pollute and destroy it....Let em be...Jesus says...
But that we do of our own volition continues in: "to tend and keep the Garden"..with all seed, and all living things, as best we can...for free!

In that light more will see the truth...because we can now see or foresee.. that what we are making with societies under this idolic state of mind, is only in error of or into the breaking of the commandments of GOD.
As Jesus pointed out...."Your making a den of sinners, robbers and thieves"...that was what the WTC towers represented...(Kicked down or out of Gods house)..under that IDOLIC system...corruption was the outcome...the failure of banks..and economic estates.

Yes it hurts when...what we make (in error) is destroyed.....so how does one quantify what God is feeling when we profane, and destroy his creations?

When we take that hot seat...and think along those lines.....we are in error...and we should correct it now!

But they do not listen...nor do they see...or do they care to be mindful ...even though they know they are polluting everything......they believe more the lies, and liars...than the truth...and they will always solve their bent problems with oppression, sanctions, to make the SIN and EVIL Festor so as to make war a constant ..hatred..sin..and evil...to make false profits, and to also make more dead blood arise...so more pollution can be made of it, and the destruction of the planet continues in their favour!

More hospitals...more drugs...more false profits!

WHile prohibiting certain plants, and poisoning and profaning others....

A healthy garden begets health people....some would say.....some....but genetially modified seed makes more money..and eventually mutations so that nothing good comes forth ...eh?

Amen?..Here is a riddle now being played out....if something very bad came from all things Good God made...then something Very Good should come from all thing Very Bad.....

Think about it.,,,should we need to go there and make that estate?

So we learn by cause and effect...might open their eyes, and their minds to the truth of God...

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by Mr5150

Work well in the USSR and still does in North Korea!

That is such a silly and completely unfounded argument. The government and the leaders were/are the problem. If your argument were true, there would be untold violence between the 'civilians' and murder and other crimes against others would make a Mad Max movie look like a bed time story. The average civilian in NK or China is safer walking the streets of their city, than you or I are walking the streets of a city in this country.

They are just trying to get through life and care for their family like everyone else.

Now let's continue to look not at the government, but at the 'civilian' population, and lets look closer to home, our own streets, the gangs, the murders, the drive-by's, the rapes, etc. etc. and we are supposedly the loving god fearing 'good guys'.

Please check in on reality from time to time, Moderator cut: deleted

[Sir Les]

The beast = Society bent on doing EVIL onto the creation...which is EVIL in itself.
Yes the Beast foretold in Revelation of John....is a mindset of people..doing a certain act, and consuming a certain by product of death...and making death...while profaning other life, and prohibiting the completion of EDEN and its multiple estates.
Making seedless fruits..abound,... and the unnatural is allowed reverance over The Natural !

This is what is now Going on...while the nuclear bombs and weapons of mass destruction are being sold on every side of the equation for more profits and gains..in killing people.

The people are played like pawns...
and the senerios all worked out meticuliously so that they (the Evil ones) gain power (through bribery, underhandedness, and bent elections and or assinations), and support, in making people hate (what God asked of US all)...so more bloodshed can be made.

"Thow shall not kill or murder" becomes Kill and we will decorate you with honours and medals.
"Do onto others as you would have done onto you" becomes "do it to them, before they do it to us"

The whole WTC event is still unfolding...and the true makers of the ordeal are not fully being sought out...and the reason why is...BIN LADEN is a US agent...Trained by US forces...supplied, and paid off by the hiden ones...who no doubt are all tied to the commonwealth.

Oh yes..Bin Laden working for US secret services...to first fight the Russians, and then they were to be appeased by some form of deal or debt to be repaid or paid....which the hiden now want to wipe out, by hunting him down and killing him off...and his group or merry men....supposedly....

Now they are saying in some circles...that Bin Laden is no longer a threat..and there is no need to continue to hunt him down any more.
Why?...Was killing Talaban who had nothing to do with 9/11 too much of cost out of buget to refocus on the real agent they claimed was the reason for the war in first place?
Was making war with Iraq and Saddam...too over buget..to continue invading and fighting in other nations backyards?

"Do onto others as you would have done onto you" comes back as a slap in the face...

So what are the tax payers really supporting with that Tax...$atan.?
the Beast!

Now the beast is drinking the blood of the dead..and polluting the planet mindlessly...and the governing bodies ,while they put that on the back burner....Go To push through Gay and Lesbian wedlock...while slaughtering and imprisoning people for growing Plants and sheep herders God said he Gave us to tend and keep the Garden with.

Funny lines of parallels, opposites, and enigmas...are forming out of this Holy Bible....if one reads between the lines.

wake up people they have you destroying the planet for a high price and you are double paying with the tax and service charges too..to fill up that tank of dead blood and spew the pollution into the air, which pollutes the waters, and the soils...and eventually your own food sources, to make you sick so they can poke and prode you, and experiment on you for a higher and higher price...so more profits can be made off the outcomes...which is Death and more ways to die are brought into the equation.....ahha...the trap of the IDOL is showing its true face!

Amen?

[tigetmax24]

Originally Posted by LargeKingCat

So I begin this inspired, directed at followers of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic diety, referred to as the "Abrahamic God" from origins of the Abrahamic tribe, called by various incarnation (Yahweh, Jehova, Allah etc)
Having read your texts, commentaries and opionions thereof, I cannot help but notice a number of followers today who refer to a sense of devotion of this diety out of Love and Commitment. I wonder then if such a loving diety can inspire such horrific deeds, from racism to murder...

"Horrific?"

So murder and racism are wrong? Objectively wrong?

You resurrect God for the purpose of laying down objective moral judgments in an apparent effort to deny God's existence?

"See the walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction."

[LargeKingCat]

Originally Posted by tigetmax24

"Horrific?"

So murder and racism are wrong? Objectively wrong?

You resurrect God for the purpose of laying down objective moral judgments in an apparent effort to deny God's existence?

"See the walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction."

yes Racism is Objectively wrong. Not only is it the Lowest form of collectivism (Rand) but it self defeating, more for the perpetratior than the victim. Racism has no part in utopian society. Racism is an evil we need to learn to live without.

Murder is wrong, because death is NOT an option. Above all else, the sanctity of life must be maintained by society. Individual rights, human rights, command this. Anything else , is from superstition and myth.

I do NOT ressurect God as you say Quite the contrary, I remove him from the equation mix altogether . That leaves humanity free to develope a utopian society, focused on problem solving and able to live and work together fro the good of all humanity.

Hope that answers your question and thanks for your reply.

[tigetmax24]

Originally Posted by LargeKingCat

yes Racism is Objectively wrong. Not only is it the Lowest form of collectivism (Rand) but it self defeating, more for the perpetratior than the victim. Racism has no part in utopian society. Racism is an evil we need to learn to live without.

Murder is wrong, because death is NOT an option. Above all else, the sanctity of life must be maintained by society. Individual rights, human rights, command this. Anything else , is from superstition and myth.

I do NOT ressurect God as you say Quite the contrary, I remove him from the equation mix altogether . That leaves humanity free to develope a utopian society, focused on problem solving and able to live and work together fro the good of all humanity.

Hope that answers your question and thanks for your reply .

Just one more question: How do you arrive at objective moral values under a relativistic framework?