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Old 07-16-2019, 12:31 AM
 
Location: California USA
1,001 posts, read 641,272 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Putting up with reading others beliefs is far different from someone unwanted coming to your door to try to convince you of their belief. Like I said the JW and Mormons in my city respect my wishes. If they d8dnt I would put up a sign lie some houses have

No peddlers or Bible pushers.

A free society means I am not forced to have to be disturbed in my own house by somebody wishing to push their beliefs upon me and if they aren't doing that than why come and ring my doorbell.

The church on the next block as some awful notices on their sign and sometimes drop a leaflet on my mailbox. I don't complain about either but I don't want to be disturbed every week by someone selling me a terrible product. My MIL was a JW and I have read enough Watchtower and zAwake mags to know what I think about their ideas. I see many times m9re signs and billboards advocating religion than non religion. They are on private property or in public spaces not on my private property.

It also seems like religious folks, groups and Fox News have fits about atheists billboards. Perhaps they should read your post.

All religious organizations that go door to door should be required to have a do not knock list that one can phone to put their name on the list and f9r them to honour. It works here and if they think that they can disturb you to sell their religion at your own door they should be willing to let you have a blanket decline. That would be mutual respect.
I agree with you no means no. Someone comes to your door and you say, "go away and don't come back" that should be the end of it. For JWs that is the case. People may have different experiences about that and I'd be surprised if no one posts such an experience but that is an individual(s) acting on their own.

A free society at least in the USA includes freedom of speech.Freedom of speech is valued more than the annoyance we experience. That's pretty much what the Supreme Court has concluded. There is a difference about billboards. A billboard that happens to be on your daily commute route indicates "belief in a deity is ignorance and by extension you're an ignoramus if you do believe so be enlightened like us and reject belief" is annoying/offensive to "believers." Same if there was a message that"if you don't believe you're going to hell." It's also offensive. But, you can't tell a billboard to" go away and don't share your message with me again." To me that's more of an intrusion. But, it's an annoyance that IMHO I accept because the alternative is censorship.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:23 AM
 
717 posts, read 80,011 times
Reputation: 429
I made up this sign for my front door. It seems to work.


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Old 07-16-2019, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,106 posts, read 10,616,757 times
Reputation: 20667
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
I agree with you no means no. Someone comes to your door and you say, "go away and don't come back" that should be the end of it. For JWs that is the case. People may have different experiences about that and I'd be surprised if no one posts such an experience but that is an individual(s) acting on their own.

A free society at least in the USA includes freedom of speech.Freedom of speech is valued more than the annoyance we experience. That's pretty much what the Supreme Court has concluded. There is a difference about billboards. A billboard that happens to be on your daily commute route indicates "belief in a deity is ignorance and by extension you're an ignoramus if you do believe so be enlightened like us and reject belief" is annoying/offensive to "believers." Same if there was a message that"if you don't believe you're going to hell." It's also offensive. But, you can't tell a billboard to" go away and don't share your message with me again." To me that's more of an intrusion. But, it's an annoyance that IMHO I accept because the alternative is censorship.
Freedom of speech is one thing. Freedom of speech when you are on my property is something different.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,965 posts, read 20,069,953 times
Reputation: 23470
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
But, you can't tell a billboard to" go away and don't share your message with me again." To me that's more of an intrusion. .
I could if someone put it on my property without me wanting it there. And it's hardly an 'intrusion' since you don't have to read them. I wouldn't be able to keep my car in my lane if I read every sign out there.
Put up all the billboards you want on property you own or lease and I have no complaint
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:27 AM
 
6,111 posts, read 2,343,788 times
Reputation: 2300
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
Trespass is different than a billboard

The OP is asking if no soliciting should apply to religion.

The reason state and municipalities, at least in the USA, are reticent to apply solicitation to religious groups is based on cases that have gone to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has ruled that protection of free speech is paramount despite the annoyance some experience.

Should freedom of speech be restricted because a group or groups are annoying? Billboards that indicate belief in a deity is ignorance and thus believers are ignoramuses and non belief is enlightenment would prove annoying to some wouldn't they?
Why wouldn't a door to door salesman have his free speech protected then?
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:29 AM
 
6,111 posts, read 2,343,788 times
Reputation: 2300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
I made up this sign for my front door. It seems to work.

Nice subtle sign
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Arizona
6,011 posts, read 5,370,500 times
Reputation: 18180
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
I agree with you no means no. Someone comes to your door and you say, "go away and don't come back" that should be the end of it. For JWs that is the case. People may have different experiences about that and I'd be surprised if no one posts such an experience but that is an individual(s) acting on their own.

A free society at least in the USA includes freedom of speech.Freedom of speech is valued more than the annoyance we experience. That's pretty much what the Supreme Court has concluded. There is a difference about billboards. A billboard that happens to be on your daily commute route indicates "belief in a deity is ignorance and by extension you're an ignoramus if you do believe so be enlightened like us and reject belief" is annoying/offensive to "believers." Same if there was a message that"if you don't believe you're going to hell." It's also offensive. But, you can't tell a billboard to" go away and don't share your message with me again." To me that's more of an intrusion. But, it's an annoyance that IMHO I accept because the alternative is censorship.
You have mentioned the Supreme Court several times. What case was it?

I know politicians, people campaigning for politicians, and people with political petitions can come to your door from sun up to sun down.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:03 PM
 
557 posts, read 157,314 times
Reputation: 1367
I bought a big grumpy cat sign with him giving you the middle paw. Most people don’t knock now but if they do they are sorry when I go on a tirade.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:32 PM
 
897 posts, read 201,782 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Freedom of speech is one thing. Freedom of speech when you are on my property is something different.
Correct.

I have the freedom of speech to put whatever bumpersticker at all on my car - but you have no rights whatsoever to put any bumpersticker at all on my car.

Why? Because it's my car. The same is true for newspapers, books, blogs, and so forth. I have the right to determine the content of my newspapers, my books, my blogs, and so forth. So it is with property.

As for door-to-door solicitation, it is hard to know precisely where the Supreme Court would today stand. In Hynes v. The Mayor and Council of the Borough of Oradell (1976) the high court stated 'A municipality has the power to enforce reasonable door-to-door soliciting and canvassing regulations to protect its citizens from crime and undue annoyance. The Court has consistently recognized that a narrowly drawn ordinance that does not vest in municipal officials the undefined power to determine what residents will hear or see may serve these interests consistent with the First Amendment.' This strong implies that a prohibition that very specifically does not target content would pass Constitutional muster. Or, at least, would have 43 years ago.

A side issue:
It is generally understood as a legal matter that an unmarked path (sidewalk, etc.) leading to a door is an invitation such that trespassing as a crime cannot occur simply by following that path to the door and knocking on it. Conversely, NO TRESPASSING signs, or a locked gate, removes that invitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Why wouldn't a door to door salesman have his free speech protected then?
Because that's commerce.

I have every right to tell you that the apples I grow in my backyard provide 100% of the RDA of every known nutrient. I don't have the right, however, to market those apples as such. I have the right to casually tell you that the cheap knockoff cellular phones I manufacture are iPhones. But I don't have the right to advertise it for sale as such.

Commercial speech - at least in the United States, where the poster to which you are responding referenced - does not enjoy the extensive First Amendment protections as speech otherwise does. It should be noted, however, that a recent (albeit decades long) trend at the Supreme Court has been to afford more and more protection to speech made in the cause of the almighty dollar.

**************************************************

Of course, those are all legal niceties and speak to what a person may (or may not) do, not what a decent and considerate person should do.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:18 PM
 
6,106 posts, read 1,748,964 times
Reputation: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumari View Post
If a apartment comples or community has 'no soliciting' signs posted, shouldn't religions abide by these rules as well?

They're selling something, their religion.
Technically, not if money is not exchanged. But I would not bother someone if they had that sign on their door. It would probably not be profitable.
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