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I'd like to think that people start threads on this forum to learn something. I have been very respectful to you in the past. This thread has been pointless. I understand your point of view. I understand why people have faith. I understand that you believe that you have seen evidence of God. I can respect that. You have shown that you are completely unable to see any point of view but your own.
Really? So you believe that Zeus, Odin, Ra, Horus, Baal, Quetzlcoutl, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, EL, Enlil, Enki, Lolth, Cthulhu, etc.. etc.. etc.. all exist as real, living, thinking gods?
Interesting. If so, then yeah - you messed up my argument.
To the OP>>>>>LOL...There is NO evidence...IMHO...to support Atheism.....OR Religion......OR ANY faith(or lack thereof) based concepts; so I fail to see what point you are attempting to convey????
Only Scientific and Mathematical based propositions are readily able to be proven within mankind's current capabilities.
To the OP>>>>>LOL...There is NO evidence...IMHO...to support Atheism.....OR Religion......OR ANY faith(or lack thereof) based concepts; so I fail to see what point you are attempting to convey????
Only Scientific and Mathematical based propositions are readily able to be proven within mankind's current capabilities.
This is one of the most dishonest things theist attempt to do. You sit there make a claim about god, I reject that claim, and then you assert that if I don't have proof that your position is wrong, then I have faith just like you. Therefore, your belief in your claim is equal to my rejection of your claim.
Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 09-17-2010 at 04:22 AM..
Reason: inappropriate video attacking believers
So after a few hours and 60+ some odd posts it boils down to two conclusions.
You know, those 60+ posts would be more useful to you if you read them. Ignoring what other people write doesn't make the words go away.
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With that said, we theists do have evidence, which skeptics just dismiss as a matter of course. And we have experiences which support the supernatural, which skeptics quickly dismiss.
Just like you reject the evidence and experience of billions of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and atheists. Why should we accept the experiences of others as evidence if you don't even do it your self?
Really? So you believe that Zeus, Odin, Ra, Horus, Baal, Quetzlcoutl, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, EL, Enlil, Enki, Lolth, Cthulhu, etc.. etc.. etc.. all exist as real, living, thinking gods?
Don't forget that this includes all of the different contradictory gods of all of the brands of Christianity out there. So he believes god is both triune and unitary, we have free will and don't, both Catholics and Protestants are correct, Jesus was both created and uncreated, and so on. It's a really poorly thought out idea to claim that every single concept of god is correct - it shows that uncritically accepting whatever random thought pops into anyone believer's head as true leads to believing in nonsense. Assuming he means it, of course, which given his track record is pretty doubtful.
This is not a logical position to hold, since to know there is no evidence for God's existence necessitates that you know all possible evidences for God's existence. Since you cannot do this (if you did you would be God), then you cannot logically say there is no evidence for God.
To say you haven't seen sufficient evidence for God's existence is a more intellectually honest position, but it is really a form of agnosticism which maintains that God is not known or knowable, while admitting the possibility of God's existence.
I would agree with that assessment...for that is my position. I simply don't know whether or not there is AN ULTIMATE SOURCE FOR ALL THERE IS a.k.a. god. I think most Athiests/Agnostics fall into this camp...because we don't know. The difference between us (believers vs. nonbelievers) is that WE DEFINITELY DO KNOW...from long years of study...that the representation of god given to us in the bible, or any other holy book for that matter, is not it...that's a fact and anyone who unbiasedly and critically examines their faith and beliefs can find this out.
So, most of us (Athiests/Agnostics) choose to live our lives without the belief in any god/gods simply for the fact that there is no real evidence. I tend to believe that something created us...but I may be wrong and maybe science will one day figure out our ultimate beginning. So, with that in mind, how can any of us honestly believe in something we know absolutely NOTHING about? I often equate the belief in the bible god to a belief in Santa Clause....once you know the truth of the matter, how could one possibly continue to believe in it? I couldn't...once you see the syncretism that was involved in forming and shaping the bible god...it's impossible to believe any longer.
The most positive thing I can say I've gained by knowing the TRUTH regarding the bible god is that I no longer live in bondage and fear that I'm not good enough...I no longer live on eggshells wondering if what I'm doing is pleasing to some imaginary god...I no longer feel that god only chooses some and not others...I just live and live my life to the fullest, being the best person I can be...treating others the way I want to be treated...finally living with real joy and happiness for the first time in my life. True peace comes from knowing that how I live my life and what I do while I'm here will impact many people for generations to come...my purpose here is in teaching my children and those I come in contact with to love and respect all people regardless of our differences, for they are the FUTURE...and what and how we teach them will shape the FUTURE to come.
This is not a logical position to hold, since to know there is no evidence for God's existence necessitates that you know all possible evidences for God's existence. Since you cannot do this (if you did you would be God), then you cannot logically say there is no evidence for God.
So basically you're trying to convince people that in a case where there is absolutely no reason to believe something, the logical thing to do is believe anyway. Since you're stressing that non-belief is illogical, belief is the only other choice. That really doesn't make sense : there's no evidence, but not enough non-evidence so you have to believe.
No one lives their life this way - they believe in things they have reasons to and lack belief in the rest of them. You know what you're trying to sell is bogus otherwise you'd show us your 100% complete survey of the universe to prove that your lack of belief in unicorns is "logically" correct. Instead, you don't believe in unicorns because they are creatures we have no evidence for. Apply the same logic towards gods and poof, you have a justified version of atheism.
This is just more of the special rules that gods need to prevent them from disappearing entirely. Apply every-day common sense ideas of evidence to them and they wither and blow away. The obvious solution? Change the rules and make special ones to protect belief in gods. And then call other people illogical when they don't use these special rules in the right places.
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To say you haven't seen sufficient evidence for God's existence is a more intellectually honest position, but it is really a form of agnosticism which maintains that God is not known or knowable, while admitting the possibility of God's existence.
Don't confuse agnosticism (belief about lack of certainty of knowledge) with atheism (lack of belief in gods).
Atheists do not have a belief in gods....period. You either have a belief or you don't. It doesn't matter if you feel certain or uncertain.
Agnosticism does not address "belief", it addresses "knowledge". On the spectrum of belief, there are only 2 choices. You either have a belief in god, or you don't. There is no fence sitting. Let's say someone asked you the question "do you believe in god."? If you cannot answer affirmatively "yes, I believe in god", then you are by definition an atheist in regards to belief. You still can claim that you do not "know" whether or not god exists (agnostic), but you additionally would currently be without a belief in one (atheist). That doesn't mean that you don't think gods are "possible", just that you do not currently actively believe in any particular god. All agnostics either have a belief in god (theist/deist) or they don't (atheist). You don't have to choose to be an atheist, or purposely claim the title of atheist, to be one by definition. Sort of like being bald (without hair), atheists are without belief (in gods).....
That's what I said, atheist dont believe as in no belief, agnostic ( I know plenty that just are not sure, yes you can be on the fence), dont know which here is short for knowledge.
But you are an atheist also, when it comes to the thousands of gods you don't believe in. Please provide evidence which supports YOUR atheism.
He was born an atheist. It wasn't until he was indoctrinated did he become a believer ( in HIS god)
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Did I mess up your arguement. Sorry. 
