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Old 07-01-2007, 02:56 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,265 posts, read 43,561,042 times
Reputation: 18790

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I was just reading this article on Yahoo, and am curious about how the religious folks feel about it... a human tooth dating back approx. 1.2 million years was found recently, and they've found others dating back hundreds of thousands of years.

Million-year-old human tooth found in Spain - Yahoo! News (broken link)

I'll say right now, I'm a complete moron when it comes to science, so I can't really debate anything technical with you. But I know enough about research to believe scientists, and to know that our planet has been around a LONG time! As I've said before, I consider myself an "Agnostic Jew", but I tend to side with science on this kind of stuff. So, how do you explain it? And don't tell me "well, nothing is 100% proven", because there's more evidence to support fossil ages than there is to support Biblical stories... and because you have "faith" in those, it seems hypocritical to demand absolute proof for everything else in the world. Anyway, just thought I'd throw this out there & see what you all come up with.
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:05 AM
 
Location: Demenza, RUSH Land
267 posts, read 486,860 times
Reputation: 84
I've heard tell this means the devil is trying to play tricks on us.

Irregardless, I side with science on this one.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:48 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
401 posts, read 622,730 times
Reputation: 381
I am not expert here you may need allot more detail then I am able to give.
Reasons To Believe: Hugh Ross, Fazale Rana, Kenneth Samples, David Rogstad, Jeff Zweerink May be a good resource for you.


As someone who believes in Intelligent Design I side with both Science and the Christian world view.

1) The word day in Hebrew doesn't necessarily have to mean 24 hours, it can be a simple way of saying that something came first, a particular period of time later, something else came.
On Adam's first "day" on earth he did much more stuff then could have possibly been done in a twenty-four hour period. There are many other reasons given in the Bible to believe that the creation days were not 24 hour periods.

2) The article said ""Since it is an isolated fossil remain, it is not possible at this point to confirm which Homo species this tooth belongs to," the foundation added, but said first analyses "allow us to suppose it is an ancestor of Homo antecessor (pioneer)."
They are supposing that this is one of our antecessors. So if they are guessing it could be a human, couldn't it just as easily been some sort of monkey tooth?

Humans are not the only creatures to use tools, even birds use sticks to get bugs out of places that they can't get to with their beaks, not just any stick either they carefully choose what stick to use and if the first one doesn't work, they come back with a stick that works better than they first, much like a human would do if they grabbed the wrong screwdriver. Monkeys are allot smarter then birds. If birds can effectively use tools, so can monkeys.

The article gives me no problem at all with my faith.

One more thing I said I side with Science but I should clarify that
Science can be a method of investigating things. I approve of the scientific method 100%

But science can also be a philosophy. The scientific philosophy sometimes plays games with us. It often decides what kind of answers are acceptable before any experiments are done. The philosophy of many scientist says that the supernatural does not exist, therefore if any evidence of the supernatural is found it is either bad science, or a bad scientist.

Imagine if police thought this way. Let's say a horrible murder was committed, and the police chief said I want you to find out who did this, leave no stone unturned. One more thing you can not implicate a white man. At some point in the investigation it would have to cross your mind what if a white man did it?

Many scientist have started to ask themselves what if God did create?
Unfortunately the scientist who are asking that, no matter how well respected they were in the past are suddenly treated like trash. Many if they come out of the theological closet before they get tenure are fired on the spot.
Click the link below to read a list of scientist that do not believe in
macro-evolution
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vie...ownload&id=660
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:11 AM
 
52 posts, read 135,401 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
I was just reading this article on Yahoo, and am curious about how the religious folks feel about it... a human tooth dating back approx. 1.2 million years was found recently, and they've found others dating back hundreds of thousands of years.

Million-year-old human tooth found in Spain - Yahoo! News (broken link)

I'll say right now, I'm a complete moron when it comes to science, so I can't really debate anything technical with you. But I know enough about research to believe scientists, and to know that our planet has been around a LONG time! As I've said before, I consider myself an "Agnostic Jew", but I tend to side with science on this kind of stuff. So, how do you explain it? And don't tell me "well, nothing is 100% proven", because there's more evidence to support fossil ages than there is to support Biblical stories... and because you have "faith" in those, it seems hypocritical to demand absolute proof for everything else in the world. Anyway, just thought I'd throw this out there & see what you all come up with.
It's amazing how people who believe in evolution through Faith in the word of scientists will throw up every sort of rule preventing others from using their Faith positions. Sorry, you can't ask a question and then throw up a block against any possible answers.
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,468 posts, read 21,232,832 times
Reputation: 17692
[quote=gizmo980;982820]I was just reading this article on Yahoo, and am curious about how the religious folks feel about it... a human tooth dating back approx. 1.2 million years was found recently, and they've found others dating back hundreds of thousands of years.

It proves to me that once again God has used science to let us know that the earth is more than 6000 years old, and that we christians should focus on his words and instructions in the bible, rather than trying to insert things that are not there for the benefit of confusion.
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,053,910 times
Reputation: 4273
[quote=blue62;983779]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
I was just reading this article on Yahoo, and am curious about how the religious folks feel about it... a human tooth dating back approx. 1.2 million years was found recently, and they've found others dating back hundreds of thousands of years.

It proves to me that once again God has used science to let us know that the earth is more than 6000 years old, and that we christians should focus on his words and instructions in the bible, rather than trying to insert things that are not there for the benefit of confusion.
Wow Blue excellent post. I think that's more what atheists are trying to get people to see. People's arrogance towards both science, evolution, and atheism seems to stem from certain churches own interpretations of the bible. I don't think there's an atheist out there that truly gives a whoop what religion others are. What we can't stand is those that try to prove us wrong in our ways by trying to cite evidence of a 6k year old earth, and all this ficticious science. Religion and science can co-exist and even though it won't change my mind as to the existence of God, perhaps some of these hardlining crazies that want to convert the whole world will calm down a bit.
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:47 AM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
4,663 posts, read 7,138,350 times
Reputation: 2862
It proves to me that once again God has used science to let us know that the earth is more than 6000 years old, and that we christians should focus on his words and instructions in the bible, rather than trying to insert things that are not there for the benefit of confusion.[/quote]

God has used science to let us know that the bible is actually wrong in how old the earth is?????? Why wouldn't he just have written it correctly in the first place?

Lets all just focus on his words. The world is 6000 years old.... oh wait a second.
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:55 AM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
4,663 posts, read 7,138,350 times
Reputation: 2862
Quote:
Originally Posted by wzippler View Post
I am not expert here you may need allot more detail then I am able to give.
Reasons To Believe: Hugh Ross, Fazale Rana, Kenneth Samples, David Rogstad, Jeff Zweerink May be a good resource for you.


As someone who believes in Intelligent Design I side with both Science and the Christian world view.

1) The word day in Hebrew doesn't necessarily have to mean 24 hours, it can be a simple way of saying that something came first, a particular period of time later, something else came.
On Adam's first "day" on earth he did much more stuff then could have possibly been done in a twenty-four hour period. There are many other reasons given in the Bible to believe that the creation days were not 24 hour periods.

2) The article said ""Since it is an isolated fossil remain, it is not possible at this point to confirm which Homo species this tooth belongs to," the foundation added, but said first analyses "allow us to suppose it is an ancestor of Homo antecessor (pioneer)."
They are supposing that this is one of our antecessors. So if they are guessing it could be a human, couldn't it just as easily been some sort of monkey tooth?

Humans are not the only creatures to use tools, even birds use sticks to get bugs out of places that they can't get to with their beaks, not just any stick either they carefully choose what stick to use and if the first one doesn't work, they come back with a stick that works better than they first, much like a human would do if they grabbed the wrong screwdriver. Monkeys are allot smarter then birds. If birds can effectively use tools, so can monkeys.

The article gives me no problem at all with my faith.

One more thing I said I side with Science but I should clarify that
Science can be a method of investigating things. I approve of the scientific method 100%

But science can also be a philosophy. The scientific philosophy sometimes plays games with us. It often decides what kind of answers are acceptable before any experiments are done. The philosophy of many scientist says that the supernatural does not exist, therefore if any evidence of the supernatural is found it is either bad science, or a bad scientist.

Imagine if police thought this way. Let's say a horrible murder was committed, and the police chief said I want you to find out who did this, leave no stone unturned. One more thing you can not implicate a white man. At some point in the investigation it would have to cross your mind what if a white man did it?

Many scientist have started to ask themselves what if God did create?
Unfortunately the scientist who are asking that, no matter how well respected they were in the past are suddenly treated like trash. Many if they come out of the theological closet before they get tenure are fired on the spot.
Click the link below to read a list of scientist that do not believe in
macro-evolution
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vie...ownload&id=660

You have no idea as to what you are talking about. This is list is a small populus of religious "scientists" who want to discredit evolution to prove intelligent design. BTW Evolution has been proved beyond any reasonable doubt and is supported by the overwhelming majority of credited scientists. Here is something I found after 30 seconds on the net:

It is one of the Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns to discredit evolution. The statement refers to evolution as Darwinism or "Darwinian theory" which are vague, misleading and lack currency. This statement has come under extensive criticism from a variety of sources as misleading, poorly phrased, containing only a miniscule fraction of scientists in the relevant fields and representing an insignificant fraction of the total scientific population.

The theory of evolution is overwhelmingly accepted throughout the scientific community,[2] with an article published by the National Institutes of Health saying that "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution".[3] It should be noted that the modern theory of evolution additionally includes recombination as a source of variation and genetic drift and gene flow as mechanisms, meaning that it does not in fact claim "the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life" as did Darwinism. This creates a degree of ambiguity as to what it is that the petition is a "dissent from." Skip Evans of the NCSE, suggests that this confusion has in fact been carefully engineered.[4]
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Old 07-01-2007, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,668 posts, read 19,943,365 times
Reputation: 21277
Default How do they know it is?

Well, gizmo, the only thing I would say after reading the article is "How do they know this is a million year old human tooth?"

Well, I can see another long creation vs. evolution thread coming down the pike here?!
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Old 07-01-2007, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,468 posts, read 21,232,832 times
Reputation: 17692
[/quote]

God has used science to let us know that the bible is actually wrong in how old the earth is?????? Why wouldn't he just have written it correctly in the first place

God never said anything about how old the earth is in our calculation of 12 months equal one year. Man has always added things to the bible that were never there. God didn't make any mistakes so he doesn't need to correct anything.


Lets all just focus on his words. The world is 6000 years old.... oh wait a second.[/quote]

Again, Gods words do not say the world is 6000 years old. I would add that IMO it is very risky to put words in the mouth of God, and just as risky to twist his words.
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