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Old 09-23-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,446,114 times
Reputation: 2027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
I am not ingnorant of the facts. I know how science works. After reading your posts I think I need to use the privy!

Oh using the other definition of the word huh? How smart!!!! Well go ahead since you are not in on the information, might as well do what you can.

I have read your posts in this forum as well as others you are beyond ignorant in how science and evolution and biology works.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 3,058,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron1999 View Post
Yes, Oklahoma is very hot and humid in the Summer. It's nothing to be over 105 degrees with a thousand percent humidity (I exaggerate for effect).

Even when the weather is cool the humidity can still be high enough to make you feel "sticky" all over.
Not to mention covering you, your clothes, car, cat and everything else with that nice red dust. Go to Walters, Ok in July for the Comanche Homecoming powwow and you'll understand why we are called "red men."



Ya know, I think the problem here is in how different people see the bible. There are those who see it as 100% word-for-word "fact". This is going to be understandably incorrect, if not laughable, to those who have studied science, history, anthropology, archaelogy, etc and see the world through a naturalistic view. The two cannot and will never jive if the bible is taken literally.

But for others, the bible is a collection of stories written by a particular people in a particular culture long ago to explain that which they could not explain. Even today, there are those Christians who still see it that way and see the bible as a source of moralistic lessons placed in a historical or semi-historical context. It teaches them certain spiritual "truths" and that is what is important to them. After talking to Jews and some of their Rabbis, this also seems to be the case. BTW, I place the word "truths" in quotations because the "truths" taught to me by the elders of my tribe are not the same as the "truths" taught by Christian, Jewish or any other belief system. "Truth" is highly dependent upon culture. This, of course, makes me question the whole concept of any one single "Truth".

I liken the historical accuracy of the bible to watching the movie "Bravehart". Yes, there was a man named William Wallace who led the Scots in a rebellion against the English, but the events portrayed in the movie are not how things actually occured.

To me, the stories in the bible are not so much to teach history or science. Nor do they give details on scientific principles of creation and so on. To attempt to do so will lead to ridicule is light of modern science and cultural study....and IMO, deservedly so.

Though I rarely agree with Mr5150, he did say something early on in this thread that was quite correct and that was his statement concerning Greek versus Hebrew mindset. We have to remember that the bible was written by Israelites/Hebrews/Jews. To read it outside of that context leads to all kinds of interpretation problems.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
443 posts, read 554,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
Not to mention covering you, your clothes, car, cat and everything else with that nice red dust. Go to Walters, Ok in July for the Comanche Homecoming powwow and you'll understand why we are called "red men."



Ya know, I think the problem here is in how different people see the bible. There are those who see it as 100% word-for-word "fact". This is going to be understandably incorrect, if not laughable, to those who have studied science, history, anthropology, archaelogy, etc and see the world through a naturalistic view. The two cannot and will never jive if the bible is taken literally.

But for others, the bible is a collection of stories written by a particular people in a particular culture long ago to explain that which they could not explain. Even today, there are those Christians who still see it that way and see the bible as a source of moralistic lessons placed in a historical or semi-historical context. It teaches them certain spiritual "truths" and that is what is important to them. After talking to Jews and some of their Rabbis, this also seems to be the case.

I liken the historical accuracy of the bible to watching the movie "Bravehart". Yes, there was a man named William Wallace who led the Scots in a rebellion against the English, but the events portrayed in the movie are not how things actually occured.

To me, the stories in the bible are not so much to teach history or science. Nor do they give details on scientific principles of creation and so on. To attempt to do so will lead to ridicule is light of modern science and cultural study....and IMO, deservedly so.

Though I rarely agree with Mr5150, he did say something early on in this thread that was quite correct and that was his statement concerning Greek versus Hebrew mindset. We have to remember that the bible was written by Israelites/Hebrews/Jews. To read it outside of that context leads to all kinds of interpretation problems.

I've been to Walters many times. That red dust pertains to the entire state. "Oklahoma, the only place other than Mars that is covered in red dirt."

I think you're correct. The Bible, as we know it today, is not how it started out. To call the Bible a "book" is incorrect. The Bible consistes of 66 "books". So, in that regard, it's more a collection of short stories that were written around the time the events occurred.

Also, there were more than 66 books written. But, only 66 of them made into the Bible that we have today. Why? I have no idea. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls, which themselves were different "books", back up the claims made by the other books in the Bible.

We all seek a spiritual "truth". It's a basic need in every human to understand why we are here. Athiests have their "truth". Christians have theirs. As do Muslims, Catholics, Buddhists, etc.

I have never, and would never, say that my way is the only way. We all have to choose our own path.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,446,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron1999 View Post
I've been to Walters many times. That red dust pertains to the entire state. "Oklahoma, the only place other than Mars that is covered in red dirt."

I think you're correct. The Bible, as we know it today, is not how it started out. To call the Bible a "book" is incorrect. The Bible consistes of 66 "books". So, in that regard, it's more a collection of short stories that were written around the time the events occurred.

Also, there were more than 66 books written. But, only 66 of them made into the Bible that we have today. Why? I have no idea. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls, which themselves were different "books", back up the claims made by the other books in the Bible.

We all seek a spiritual "truth". It's a basic need in every human to understand why we are here. Athiests have their "truth". Christians have theirs. As do Muslims, Catholics, Buddhists, etc.

I have never, and would never, say that my way is the only way. We all have to choose our own path.


And I truly respect that I do. The only time I get a bug up my rear ( sorry old grandma saying) is when it is pushed on me my family or in the schools, government and what have you. They believe, they go to church they have their gatherings, all is fine. But when they protest an atheist or or the religions "display" of lets say Christmas decor ( happened here at the capital)or when my kids cant sing traditional x-mas songs so as not to disrespect other religions, that is when I get highly irritated.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
443 posts, read 554,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
[/b]

And I truly respect that I do. The only time I get a bug up my rear ( sorry old grandma saying) is when it is pushed on me my family or in the schools, government and what have you. They believe, they go to church they have their gatherings, all is fine. But when they protest an atheist or or the religions "display" of lets say Christmas decor ( happened here at the capital)or when my kids cant sing traditional x-mas songs so as not to disrespect other religions, that is when I get highly irritated.

I don't blame you one bit. All of us, regardless of our belief, get upset when somebody says or does something to threaten that belief.

I have never pushed my belief onto anybody. If they ask me questions I'll do my best to answer them. But, they have to make up their own minds on what they want to believe. That's entirely on them. Not me.

Now, back to my time machine idea. When you, and I, go back to the first century I'm going to bring along an iPhone. Then I'm going to give it to someone and tell them to write down a description of it.

Wouldn't that be a hoot?

Even today there are still some "tribes" that would probably attempt to kill us if we produced a flashlight, or lit a match.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,446,114 times
Reputation: 2027
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron1999 View Post
I don't blame you one bit. All of us, regardless of our belief, get upset when somebody says or does something to threaten that belief.

I have never pushed my belief onto anybody. If they ask me questions I'll do my best to answer them. But, they have to make up their own minds on what they want to believe. That's entirely on them. Not me.

Now, back to my time machine idea. When you, and I, go back to the first century I'm going to bring along an iPhone. Then I'm going to give it to someone and tell them to write down a description of it.

Wouldn't that be a hoot?

Even today there are still some "tribes" that would probably attempt to kill us if we produced a flashlight, or lit a match.
SOunds like fun!!!!! I want a digital camera, to have photo evidence, that would be highly interesting!!!!! Now I want a time machine!!!!!!!! Yes we may have wear some good running shoes to avoid the spears!!!!

Oh and I want to find out who jack the Ripper is as well!!
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
443 posts, read 554,610 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
SOunds like fun!!!!! I want a digital camera, to have photo evidence, that would be highly interesting!!!!! Now I want a time machine!!!!!!!! Yes we may have wear some good running shoes to avoid the spears!!!!

Oh and I want to find out who jack the Ripper is as well!!

Deal. Our first stop HAS to be the Island of Patmos. I want to be able to say, "Hey, John. Forget the 7 trumpets. Check out this iPhone!" LOL.

Then you can take pictures of him trying to describe it with his limited vocabulary.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,446,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron1999 View Post
Deal. Our first stop HAS to be the Island of Patmos. I want to be able to say, "Hey, John. Forget the 7 trumpets. Check out this iPhone!" LOL.

Then you can take pictures of him trying to describe it with his limited vocabulary.
Cool, I would like to meet Julius Caesar, see how the pyramids were built, obviously check out the bible and check out King Arthur times. I'd say Dinos, but I have a feeling we wouldn't make it very far.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
443 posts, read 554,610 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Cool, I would like to meet Julius Caesar, see how the pyramids were built, obviously check out the bible and check out King Arthur times. I'd say Dinos, but I have a feeling we wouldn't make it very far.

Oh, we'd definitely check out the Pyramids. I too want to know how they were built.

And, I want to see for myself what that "cloud" or "pillar" was that followed Moses and the Hebrews.

The dino's would be neat to see. But, once the T-Rex appears I'll be firing up that time machine faster than you can blink.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,446,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron1999 View Post
Oh, we'd definitely check out the Pyramids. I too want to know how they were built.

And, I want to see for myself what that "cloud" or "pillar" was that followed Moses and the Hebrews.

The dino's would be neat to see. But, once the T-Rex appears I'll be firing up that time machine faster than you can blink.

I am actually more afraid of the raptors, silent stalkers!! Possibly make fun of the Neanderthals for that uni-brow.
Oh and I would like to say hi to Elvis and warn him.
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