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I think so to. Since I follow scriptures. Jesus confirmed the Old Testament and attacked the Talmud, so did the Koran.
To me its crystal clear. And now I confirm the Koran and attack the Sunnah. Cause:
Torah is from God and Talmud is from man.
Gospel is from God and Trinity is from man.
Koran is from God and Sunnah is from man.
I plan on trusting God and not man.
You like Christians think they have the only truth.
There was no talmud in the time of Jesus. There was an oral tradition. The Mishnah was written down around 200 CE and the the Gemara and Mishnah make up the talmud.
There are 2 types of Talmud (400 CE) the Jerusalam and Babylonian (6th century CE)
The Quran, Hebrew and Christian Scriptures are really just written down by men who believed they were inspired by G-d.
But the truth of the matter is that none of these works are actually written down as first hand accounts.
Even the Qur'an was written down after the prophets death by folks who had memorized what he gave out as revelations. And unless someone was in the cave with him then the revelation is not better then any of the other writings.
Men inspired by G-d.
So are you only believing G-d or are you trusting man in that what all of these writers are saying cannot be proven.
Maybe that is why Muslims and Christians get so upset when they are questioned and why they lash out at others who they see as either being non believers or as not agreeing with them.
That is why you and they feel the need to prove and attack.
No He didn't. He fulfilled the Law on our behalf. The only "work" He requires of us is to believe in Him.
Matt. 5:17
John 6:29
He did not fulfill the law on your behalf, and he still directs you comply with the laws.
Quote:
Luke 18:18 Now a certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18:19 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. 18:20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’” 18:21 The man replied, “I have wholeheartedly obeyed all these laws since my youth.”18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and give the moneyto the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
If Jesus fulfilled the law as you claim, and if Jesus only requires you to believe in him, then why did Jesus lie and tell that man he had to comply with the laws and also sell everything he had and give the money to the poor?
If, according to you, one need only to believe in Jesus, then why did Jesus not tell the man, "You only need to believe in me to inherit eternal life."
You like Christians think they have the only truth.
There was no talmud in the time of Jesus. There was an oral tradition. The Mishnah was written down around 200 CE and the the Gemara and Mishnah make up the talmud.
There are 2 types of Talmud (400 CE) the Jerusalam and Babylonian (6th century CE)
The Quran, Hebrew and Christian Scriptures are really just written down by men who believed they were inspired by G-d.
But the truth of the matter is that none of these works are actually written down as first hand accounts.
Even the Qur'an was written down after the prophets death by folks who had memorized what he gave out as revelations. And unless someone was in the cave with him then the revelation is not better then any of the other writings.
Men inspired by G-d.
So are you only believing G-d or are you trusting man in that what all of these writers are saying cannot be proven.
Maybe that is why Muslims and Christians get so upset when they are questioned and why they lash out at others who they see as either being non believers or as not agreeing with them.
That is why you and they feel the need to prove and attack.
No its not that. And I don't attack, I am refuting what you are saying. Its not the same thing.
What I am saying is, is that JUdaism as we know it today, is NOT a function of the Old Testament. If you do not believe in the validity of the OT then this is not an issue for you. Judaism is a function of the teachings of the Talmud. As far as saying that the Talmud was not there in the time of Jesus, yes, as you can see Jesus made it clear that it was at the time the tradition of the elders. It came later known as the Talmud and took a religious position claiming to be the teachings of Moses and David and Solomon. When it is NOT the teachings of these prophets. It is not only whether these scriptures are divine or authentic, it has more to do whether these religions are a true reflections of the scriptures these religions claim to follow and the prophets these religions claim to follow.
In Israel you have the star of David. Well, would David recognize this Judaism he will see in Israel today?
Saudi Arabia and Egypt claim to be Sunnis, meaning the follow the Sunnah(path or way) of Muhammad. Is the Islam that is practiced in Egypt and Saudi today an Islam that Muhammad would have recognized?
Is the Judaism of today consitent with the OT? Is the Islam of today consistent with the Koran? Or is it a function of the Talmudic and Sunnah influence? I have posted a thread here about the difference between the Koranic Islam and Sunni/Shiasm. However they deleted it from the forum for some copy right stuff. In that article you can see some major differences.
And by the way the story of Muhammad in the cave with Gabriel is not Koranic.
Not saying its not true, but we actually do not have any indication of that from the Koran. In fact its known how he received the revelation. One of the biggest difference between Koranic Islam and Sunni/Shiasm is the sectarian nature of these religions as compared to the sect. These sect will tell you Muhammad is the greatest of the prophets. The Christians will tell you Jesus is divine and the only one so among the prophets. The Jews started emphasizing themselves and their geneology (ethno-centrism). But the Koran says:
"Say: We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. " 2:136
"The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers - and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying. " 2:285
{4:152}
"And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them-- Allah will grant them their rewards; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
Koran is non sectarian. These religions will tell you that they are in heaven and the rest are in hell. Muslims even sometimes claim that the other Islamic sect are in hell let alone Jews or Christians. They have created a theology called the "5 pillars of Islam". This along with the Muhammedan emphasis was away to seperate and then distinguish themselves from the other religions. Jews by focusing on themselves, Christians by focusing on Jesus, Muslim by focusing on Muhammad. But the Koran says:
"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (5:69)
O mankind, We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into races and tribes, so that you may identify one another. Surely the noblest of you, in Allah‘s sight, is the one who is most pious of you. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (Hujurat) 49-13
124. If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them. (4:124)
2.111-112 And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Those who believe , and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Faith in God and the here after is the Koran's criteria. The Koran is non sectarian. It does not look at races, languages or sect. It looks at faith and deeds. Go to a Jewish Rabbi, a Christian Priest or Muslim Sheikh and see what they will tell you for yourself.
No its not that. And I don't attack, I am refuting what you are saying. Its not the same thing.
What I am saying is, is that JUdaism as we know it today, is NOT a function of the Old Testament. If you do not believe in the validity of the OT then this is not an issue for you. Judaism is a function of the teachings of the Talmud. As far as saying that the Talmud was not there in the time of Jesus, yes, as you can see Jesus made it clear that it was at the time the tradition of the elders. It came later known as the Talmud and took a religious position claiming to be the teachings of Moses and David and Solomon. When it is NOT the teachings of these prophets. It is not only whether these scriptures are divine or authentic, it has more to do whether these religions are a true reflections of the scriptures these religions claim to follow and the prophets these religions claim to follow.
In Israel you have the star of David. Well, would David recognize this Judaism he will see in Israel today?
Saudi Arabia and Egypt claim to be Sunnis, meaning the follow the Sunnah(path or way) of Muhammad. Is the Islam that is practiced in Egypt and Saudi today an Islam that Muhammad would have recognized?
Is the Judaism of today consitent with the OT? Is the Islam of today consistent with the Koran? Or is it a function of the Talmudic and Sunnah influence? I have posted a thread here about the difference between the Koranic Islam and Sunni/Shiasm. However they deleted it from the forum for some copy right stuff. In that article you can see some major differences.
And by the way the story of Muhammad in the cave with Gabriel is not Koranic.
Not saying its not true, but we actually do not have any indication of that from the Koran. In fact its known how he received the revelation. One of the biggest difference between Koranic Islam and Sunni/Shiasm is the sectarian nature of these religions as compared to the sect. These sect will tell you Muhammad is the greatest of the prophets. The Christians will tell you Jesus is divine and the only one so among the prophets. The Jews started emphasizing themselves and their geneology (ethno-centrism). But the Koran says:
"Say: We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. " 2:136
"The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers - and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying. " 2:285
{4:152}
"And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them-- Allah will grant them their rewards; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
Koran is non sectarian. These religions will tell you that they are in heaven and the rest are in hell. Muslims even sometimes claim that the other Islamic sect are in hell let alone Jews or Christians. They have created a theology called the "5 pillars of Islam". This along with the Muhammedan emphasis was away to seperate and then distinguish themselves from the other religions. Jews by focusing on themselves, Christians by focusing on Jesus, Muslim by focusing on Muhammad. But the Koran says:
"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (5:69)
O mankind, We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into races and tribes, so that you may identify one another. Surely the noblest of you, in Allah‘s sight, is the one who is most pious of you. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (Hujurat) 49-13
124. If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them. (4:124)
2.111-112 And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Those who believe , and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Faith in God and the here after is the Koran's criteria. The Koran is non sectarian. It does not look at races, languages or sect. It looks at faith and deeds. Go to a Jewish Rabbi, a Christian Priest or Muslim Sheikh and see what they will tell you for yourself.
Because I don't need to prove the rightness of Judaism. The history of Judaism. How it developed and survived amid the chaos and violence of the world around it. The sages and how they worked.
The miracle is that we Jews are still here. Despite the efforts of history to make us disappear.
That is my proof, I need no more.
That being said I am done with this thread and with you Quranist.
Because I don't need to prove the rightness of Judaism. The history of Judaism. How it developed and survived amid the chaos and violence of the world around it. The sages and how they worked.
The miracle is that we Jews are still here. Despite the efforts of history to make us disappear.
That is my proof, I need no more.
That being said I am done with this thread and with you Quranist.
Exellent post. I find it hillarious that someone who converted to judaism makes posts like this: "The miracle is that we Jews are still here. Despite the efforts of history to make us disappear."
LOL yes, even if you are correct (which you are not, history was unkind to most if not all religions), you and your family would NOT have disappeared.
Exellent post. I find it hillarious that someone who converted to judaism makes posts like this: "The miracle is that we Jews are still here. Despite the efforts of history to make us disappear."
LOL yes, even if you are correct (which you are not, history was unkind to most if not all religions), you and your family would NOT have disappeared.
When you convert you become a Jew and a member of the people Israel. Becoming Jewish is not just choosing a religion. You also assume that I don't have Jewish ancestry. Many people come to Judaism because they have a Jewish family tree, they just were not born Jewish. So you really are making some assumptions here.
Like the story of Ruth. Your people will be my people and your G-d my G-d.
When you convert you become a Jew and a member of the people Israel. Becoming Jewish is not just choosing a religion. You also assume that I don't have Jewish ancestry. Many people come to Judaism because they have a Jewish family tree, they just were not born Jewish. So you really are making some assumptions here.
Like the story of Ruth. Your people will be my people and your G-d my G-d.
And it is a miracle, laugh all you want.....
This sounds like a Seinfeld episode - did you convert for the jokes? lol
And of course you, with the viewpoint you're pushing, aren't ethno-centric at all.
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