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Old 10-01-2010, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,455 posts, read 12,505,413 times
Reputation: 16451

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Well as for me I:

1. Believe that God (the one who created all) is real and....

2. The Bible gives the correct description of God

You guys can call God evil and you are entitled to your opinion, but Christians and Jews understand what the Bible says about God. The complete picture in a nut shell is that God created all and we owe our very existance to Him. He makes the rules and we are free to choose, yes or no. Freewill is a dangerous thing.

Why does God allow evil? I really don't know. Maybe He decided to let people do as they please. I don't consider that as evil as much as a mystery

I like how it is put in Deuteronomy 30 as Moses relates to the Israelites what God said:

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,986 posts, read 18,643,982 times
Reputation: 2178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Well as for me I:

1. Believe that God (the one who created all) is real and....

2. The Bible gives the correct description of God

You guys can call God evil and you are entitled to your opinion, but Christians and Jews understand what the Bible says about God. The complete picture in a nut shell is that God created all and we owe our very existance to Him. He makes the rules and we are free to choose, yes or no. Freewill is a dangerous thing.

Why does God allow evil? I really don't know. Maybe He decided to let people do as they please. I don't consider that as evil as much as a mystery

I like how it is put in Deuteronomy 30 as Moses relates to the Israelites what God said:

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.


I have no problem with you having the right to believe what you want. It is your belief and that is fine. I don't respect the belief but I do your right to it.

I don't want to be judged for not believing as you do.

I don't want it in schools, government or any other place it does not belong. It is a personal belief and should remain that way, others that don't want to deal with it should not have to.

I don't want people pushing it on others like gay people not being able to marry or abortion or any other.

If an atheist group wants to put up a sign next to the Christian sign at Christmas at the state capital they should be allowed to without protest.

I don't want to have to say Happy Holidays so I don't offend " other" religions.

Religion is a personal issue and should remain that way.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,158,431 times
Reputation: 6958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
........evil or narcissistic or sadistic?

Do you suppose that saying things like this somehow demonstrates that God does not exist? Or that you will cause theists to say "You're right, I now chose to no longer believe"?

I am really curious what's with the "God is evil" campaign that seems to be part of the atheist's three point mantra, so to speak.

Please consider that disagreeable behaior does not disprove God. It only means you find God's behavior, well.........disagreeable. But if you want to hate God that is your choice/

I am just letting you guys and gals know that you're wasting your time on theists with this sort of stuff. I just shake my head.
One good way is to read newspapers, books (not novels), and tune in to what is (and has) happened in the world. Then give it all some thought (more than 15 seconds).
Beyond any doubt god is the most evil tyrant that ever existed.
However, no proof for god's existence is available.
God does not exist. We all live in the conditions of life.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:23 PM
 
6,034 posts, read 10,663,406 times
Reputation: 3989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
You guys can call God evil and you are entitled to your opinion,
There goes the typhoon again. You just don't get it. Someone like me -- we're NOT saying that 'god is evil'. Get that through your head once and for all. I don't believe in any gods, but hypothetically speaking (Hypothetical | Define Hypothetical at Dictionary.com ), IF it did, and IF it was the deity described in the bible, THEN it would be an evil entity.

Capisce?
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,621,022 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I don't want to be judged for not believing as you do.
...and meanwhile, you seem to think that it's okay for you to make judgments on those not believing as you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I don't want it in schools, government or any other place it does not belong. It is a personal belief and should remain that way, others that don't want to deal with it should not have to.
Presumably your "it" would be in reference to creation? Meanwhile, it's perfectly fine to teach kid's that there are no moral absolutes, no real purpose for existence. Also, as we all know, it's perfectly fine to preach 'time + chance + matter' in school and pass it all off as 'science.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I don't want people pushing it on others like gay people not being able to marry or abortion or any other.
...but it's perfectly okay for you to be "pushing" your ideas of morality on others?

Law is an imposition. Are you suggesting that we should have a lawless society?
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,621,022 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by eloyfan View Post
Atheism is not the non-belief of god, it is the lack of belief. You can't argue with an atheist. Suffice it to say that they do not have faith. Faith is a replacement of or a supplement to reason. People who are rational and reason things through will not agree with the premise that the bible is the word of god. There is no evidence.
Do you believe that there is no God?

What would be your "reasonable" alternative to the Cosmological argument?
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Marlborough, MA
871 posts, read 3,014,057 times
Reputation: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Do you believe that there is no God?

What would be your "reasonable" alternative to the Cosmological argument?

Not in the biblical sense. I do have a spiritual awareness but it has nothing to do with the bible, organized religion, Jesus or church. Obviously, participating in that, I would be condoning separatism, elitism, hatred and supreme arrogance. Just my position on that.

Cosmologically, no god needed. The universe is incredible enough in its own right, with mysteries and wonders and mind-boggling distances, numbers and equations. No need for a designer. How did it happen? No one knows, no one will likely ever know. I don't personally need to seek those answers, I just know that as misguided as humans are in the first place, their invention of religion, as I have previously stated, is a self-serving farce.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Detroit/South Korea
465 posts, read 527,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloyfan View Post
Not in the biblical sense. I do have a spiritual awareness but it has nothing to do with the bible, organized religion, Jesus or church. Obviously, participating in that, I would be condoning separatism, elitism, hatred and supreme arrogance. Just my position on that.

Cosmologically, no god needed. The universe is incredible enough in its own right, with mysteries and wonders and mind-boggling distances, numbers and equations. No need for a designer. How did it happen? No one knows, no one will likely ever know. I don't personally need to seek those answers, I just know that as misguided as humans are in the first place, their invention of religion, as I have previously stated, is a self-serving farce.
+1

I for one cannot figure out WHY you need to know, or pretend to know things that you really CAN'T know.

If people's personal belief makes them feel good, fine, but why push it as absolute truth on everyone?

I always ask if morals come from the bible, then why not follow everything in the bible?
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Old 10-02-2010, 06:15 AM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,621,022 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by eloyfan View Post
Not in the biblical sense.
Do you believe it's possible to prove or know in the scientific sense whether or not "biblical" God exists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eloyfan View Post
I do have a spiritual awareness but it has nothing to do with the bible, organized religion, Jesus or church. Obviously, participating in that, I would be condoning separatism, elitism, hatred and supreme arrogance. Just my position on that.
Fascinating. Let's say that you are the only person on planet earth that has the sort of world view that you do, would this not make you a separatist? Likewise, if your world view places you amongst many others with similar views, how would this be considered as any different than anyone else who happens to be aligned with a group of like-minded thinkers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eloyfan View Post
Cosmologically, no god needed.
This doesn't answer the question. Given your previous reason vs. faith statement, what would be your reasonable alternative to the notion of a creation event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eloyfan View Post
The universe is incredible enough in its own right, with mysteries and wonders and mind-boggling distances, numbers and equations. No need for a designer.
Wouldn't this be considered as more of a response to the Teleological argument rather than the Cosmological argument?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eloyfan View Post
How did it happen? No one knows, no one will likely ever know. I don't personally need to seek those answers, I just know that as misguided as humans are in the first place, their invention of religion, as I have previously stated, is a self-serving farce.
Pure intellectual dishonesty I think. If you're going to place all religion (whatever it is you mean by religion) in the category of being a "self serving farce" then you would at least carry some sort of responsibility with respect to providing a reasonable defense. Saying that you don't know or don't care is simply a cop out.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Marlborough, MA
871 posts, read 3,014,057 times
Reputation: 958
Sigh.....you're hurting my head with all your point-by point questions. Here goes:

1.) No. I am not aware of, nor recognize, any science that searches for god's existence. I am more interested in scientists working to cure diseases and birth defects. Why look for a god that is not there?

2.) Separatist in the fashion of my christian god is better than your allah. Whilst sitting self-righteously in a pew, arrogantly believing with all my heart that I be "saved", while Geronimo, for example, is going to roast in hell. That's my intended meaning.

3.) Reasonable alternative? The only one that is logical and believable and rational! What could be more illogical that creationism? lol

4.)No. The universe (multiverse) is a wonderful, existing spectacle. Standing alone. One does not know the cause/reason. Why is that not enough? Why is presenting a fairy tale creator more logical than not?

5.) I could not BE more honest with my answer. Sounds to me like you want to pull the god-rabbit out of a hat. I reserve my decision on what I feel is the catalyst for the start of the universe when it is factually presented to me. It won't be. That's pure, unadulterated honest. Reason still trumps the fantastic voyage you extol.

How completely doomed your line of thinking if you righteously defend a viewpoint that a creator of a universe of the magnitude of ours would dote on you. Hear your voice. Solve your problems through prayer. THAT'S the ultimate cop out. I've read the bible. Now you read some books demystifying it. I dare you to do so with an open mind. Bet I'll lose that bet.
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