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The Bible states very clearly that the only way to be saved is by accepting Jesus as your savior. That means I'm not going to be saved and neither are literally billions of other human beings who are either non believers or belong to a different faith.
The bible also states very clearly that Jesus is the savior of the World, and is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world, and all will bow to Jesus and confess Him as Lord and swear allegiance to Him. Also, the bible reveals God's plan is to reconcile all things to himself and to bring all things together in unity under one head - Christ. Furthermore the bible says God desires and wills all people to be saved, and the bible also says God does everything He desires and His will shall not be thwarted.
So, according to the bible, sounds like all will eventually turn to Christ and be saved, even you MontanaGuy!
If all these things that people speak of "salvation" and "Eternal Salvation" are true, for the moment let's say they are; would you not want to be saved?
Lionpainter, since I have read in other threads that you claim to be Jesus (Did I read that right? Or did I misinterpret you).... anyway, if you are Jesus, are you planning on saving the world? Because that is the title you are given in the bible.
Christianity, from my perspective is saying that God is this mean father. Jesus is like your big brother, sitting next to your dad telling him to calm down so he doesn't give you a whipping.
This is why I don't buy the "Jesus is God" argument. Its simply just doesn't make sense.
I don't believe that Christ was a deity either, he was a man, a man who was in tune with something greater than ourselves, but a man none the less. Where Christianity goes wrong is in its goal to make Jesus more than what he was. They will defend to the bitter end tha Jesus is a God.
This is kind of funny to me. After all, we went from a polytheastic culture, to a monotheastic culture, back to a hybrid of the two.
What does it mean to believe in Christ? Does it mean that you must believe he is God, or does it simply mean that you should live by his tenants? You know, love thy neighbor, turn the other check, things of that nature?
I personally think its the latter. If Jesus is the God of the old testament, how could he be a loving God? That God was jealous, petty, angry, and childish. He wanted men to kill other men because they didn't believe in him. He wanted to be worshipped over all other Gods. If I were an almighty God, that created everything, I wouldn't feel threatned by a piece of wood, or a golden calf.
Why do you even believe Jesus existed? It appears you believe some parts of the Bible. Why not all of it?
Why do you even believe Jesus existed? It appears you believe some parts of the Bible. Why not all of it?
There is some evidence that Jesus existed, most of it is cirumstantial, but there is some. I have a hard time believing that he didn't exist, simply because of the large number of people in the area who knew who he was.
I don't believe that the Earth was created in 6 days. I don't believe that Jonah was swallowed by a fish (not whale, contrary to popular belief), or that Noah built an arch where he and 2 of every animal on the Earth lived for 40 days and nights, or that Jesus Christ was a God.
The bible has lots of good lessons in it, and I think everyone should read it. However, people who think its the "word of God" and that its infallable are just ignorant.
I came to my conclusion a long time ago. I believe there is a God, whatever it is. I don't believe its a person, or anything like people, could be a collective consiousness, but who knows. I believe that all religions actually worship the same God, and that all of the evil that is spawned from religion, and all of the laws are written by men, using whatever is out there to further their own means.
I also believe that everyone is going to "heaven" whatever that is, yes even Hitler. It may take some of us longer to get there, but we will all get there.
I do not belive that Heaven is some place where I have to stand around and worship some all powerful being all day long. I'm not much of an ass kisser, so I would never fit in in Heaven if thats what I've got to do anyway.
Location: where the moss is taking over the villages
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAA2125
Before I became a Christian, I had a real dilemma regarding if there was a God or a heaven, why would the "select" few have to saved.
Someone in one of the threads recently remarked: Why can't people of other faiths or no faiths get into heaven? People are born in many different areas of the world, faiths, families ---- why should they be punished or not accepted into God's Kingdom if there is one?
This concept was hard for me to handle when I think about the many wonderful, loving, generous people who either don't know about Christianity, or who were born into another faith, or who, like me, was raised in a religious home and walked away from what I felt was hypocrisy on many different levels. That being said, when agnostics or atheists post and respond to questions, I can understand the reason and logic.
Here is what I researched and have accepted, based on my faith. It was not easy for me to reconcile at first. Have other Christians found this concept of their faith difficult to accept as I did, and at times still ponder.
From my biblical research, I have found some answers of what God says about this. The Lord's will for this, may not necessarily be what I would have found it to be, but I believe that I have found some of these answers in regard to this issue.
We must believe in Jesus Christ in order to go to heaven. Jesus said, "I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come" (Jn. 8: 21). Why were these to whom Jesus spoke not going to heaven? "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins," Jesus explains, "for if ye believe not that I am he, he shall die in your sins" (vs. 24). Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (Jn. 14: 6).
To believe in Jesus involves acknowledging Jesus' Lordship and rule. Many would agree that the Bible teaches those of religions which do not believe in Jesus will not go to heaven, but they fail to understand what believing in Jesus entails. Jesus asked, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Lk. 6: 46). Jesus saves those who obey him. (Heb. 5: 8,9). The obedient will be allowed entrance into heaven (Rev. 22: 14, KJV).
If we all truly believe in Jesus we will be embracing the same faith, because there is really only one faith (Eph. 4: 5). Yes, there are thousands in existence, but only one is taught in the scriptures. The New Testament constitutes the "one faith" (Jude 3). Denominationalism, many different faiths, did not exist in the First Century. Man has invented and introduced the many faiths concept.
The Scriptural answer I have found in the New Testatement answers the question of "Will people of other faiths, or no faith go to heaven", and the answer I have found biblically is no.
I wrestle with this frequently.
the j' witnesses have an even more interesting view: when i studied with them, i was told that a certain NUMBER of people go to heaven. i think this number is in the book of revelations. 144,000 is the number i remember.
those people know who they are (i kid you not) & those people are the ones who are celebrated on easter at the jw hall. i've seen it with my own eyes.
the other believers or those deemed 'good' by jehovah, are resurrected & get to be on the new earth (jehovah makes the earth over again... paradise?...) then the devil gets to tempt everyone again... i lost interest at this point since it sounded like reincarnation and i'm already down with that.
all religions pretty much sound like MLM schemes to me.
i'm probably not going to heaven if there is one. i'd never be deemed good enough!
the j' witnesses have an even more interesting view: when i studied with them, i was told that a certain NUMBER of people go to heaven. i think this number is in the book of revelations. 144,000 is the number i remember.
those people know who they are (i kid you not) & those people are the ones who are celebrated on easter at the jw hall. i've seen it with my own eyes.
the other believers or those deemed 'good' by jehovah, are resurrected & get to be on the new earth (jehovah makes the earth over again... paradise?...) then the devil gets to tempt everyone again... i lost interest at this point since it sounded like reincarnation and i'm already down with that.
all religions pretty much sound like MLM schemes to me.
i'm probably not going to heaven if there is one. i'd never be deemed good enough!
kate
A friend of mine is a JW - we have agreed to disagree. I never got the whole 144,000 thing either...and how they know who gets the ride up for free.
I also could never deny someone my blood if they needed it; or not go thru with a life-saving operation.
I have always had an interest in how people practice their faith - I can't accept that a God would create so much diversity (on just this one planet
- imagine what else is out there!) and then expect us all to worship him the same way.
kate - if you aren't good enough to get into Heaven on your own (doubtful )....just look for the old lady polishing the Pearly Gates - I'll sneak you in!
It depends on which part of it you read, it contradicts itself so much you have to interpit your own reading of it. Why do you think there are so many splinter groups in christianity?
It depends on which part of it you read, it contradicts itself so much you have to interpit your own reading of it. Why do you think there are so many splinter groups in christianity?
Many of the contradictions go away when you study the original scriptures.
The biggest contradiction in Christianity is this: God is all-loving, but will torture most of His creation for eternity. Of course this is absurd.
But if you honestly study what the scriptures say, you will realize they do not preach eternal torment, but instead salvation of all.
God is the savior of all men, and will have all men to be saved. The bible message is good news.
The Scriptural answer I have found in the New Testatement answers the question of "Will people of other faiths, or no faith go to heaven", and the answer I have found biblically is no.
I wrestle with this frequently.
It is my belief that life the universe and everything is just a family affair. God the Father created/organized zillions of spirit children in His likeness and image and is now providing an earthly experience for them.
Here, under a veil of forgetting our former life with Him, we are exposed to opposites so that we can learn to distinguish light from darkness, pleasure from pain, health from sickness etc. He also gave us the freedom to CHOOSE and provided commandments etc. as a roadmap back to Him. We daily make choices that move us closer to growing up like Him (good/righteousness) or further away from Him (evil/satanic.)
Because He knew that we would all sin (disobey His commandments) our Heavenly Father provided a Savior for us. That Savior would work through an infinite atonement, take upon himself the sins and sicknesses of every single person ever born to this world. Because of that atoning sacrifice Jesus Christ would have the power and the right to apply mercy to balance the universally binding scales of stern justice. Otherwise the scales would tip in only one direction for we have not the power to save ourselves from sin, and none would be saved.
Ok, with that as background we've come to the word "saved". Which means what?
I'll continue in my next post just in case there are some reading who might be interested in learning more about my beliefs.
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I wrestle with this frequently.
schemes to me.
