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You poke a 2 month old fetus and it will flinch.. So it's all about size then?
I'm just letting you know my opinion. I don't consider a fetus that is less than one inch long a human being yet. It could not survive outside of the body on it's own. It cannot breathe. It cannot function on it's own. That is just my opinion. I'm not trying to change your mind - I'm just expressing my own mind.
It's hard for me to imagine every having an abortion now that I am actually trying to get pregnant. I mean, certainly I would not have one now! But it is not a decision that I would ever have made lightly - even if I had been a terrified teenager. I think education and protection and knowledge are the key. But no matter what I would do in my own life - I do not believe that I have the right to dictate what every other woman or teenager girl should do in whatever situation they happen to find themselves in. I don't want scared teenage girls trying to use wire hangers and end up killing themselves because they were so ashamed. That's just not something I want to be a part of.
I have had a few friends that have had abortions over the years. It was extremely traumatic for all of them. But even my friend that was 26 years old - who lived in an apartment with a bunch of other people and didn't have health insurance or a steady job - how could I fault her for decision? Should she have used protection? Hell yes! I lecture my friends all the time about safe sex! I'm positively obnoxious on the subject! But would I tell her that she should really have the baby even though she had absolutely no means to support it and no health insurance? I don't even know if she could have carried the baby safely given her lifestyle. So what did I do? I was there as a shoulder for her to cry on.
Like I said - this is just my opinion. I believe that it should be the woman's decision but that there should be some limitations.
Many people have attempted to compare human life to animals in a vain attempt to dehumanize them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
I'm just letting you know my opinion. I don't consider a fetus that is less than one inch long a human being yet. It could not survive outside of the body on it's own. It cannot breathe. It cannot function on it's own. That is just my opinion. I'm not trying to change your mind - I'm just expressing my own mind.
It's hard for me to imagine every having an abortion now that I am actually trying to get pregnant. I mean, certainly I would not have one now! But it is not a decision that I would ever have made lightly - even if I had been a terrified teenager. I think education and protection and knowledge are the key. But no matter what I would do in my own life - I do not believe that I have the right to dictate what every other woman or teenager girl should do in whatever situation they happen to find themselves in. I don't want scared teenage girls trying to use wire hangers and end up killing themselves because they were so ashamed. That's just not something I want to be a part of.
I have had a few friends that have had abortions over the years. It was extremely traumatic for all of them. But even my friend that was 26 years old - who lived in an apartment with a bunch of other people and didn't have health insurance or a steady job - how could I fault her for decision? Should she have used protection? Hell yes! I lecture my friends all the time about safe sex! I'm positively obnoxious on the subject! But would I tell her that she should really have the baby even though she had absolutely no means to support it and no health insurance? I don't even know if she could have carried the baby safely given her lifestyle. So what did I do? I was there as a shoulder for her to cry on.
Like I said - this is just my opinion. I believe that it should be the woman's decision but that there should be some limitations.
I know you are expressing you opinion, but I am having trouble understanding how you got to such opinion. A 2 month old fetus has a brain, spine and heart.. I don't understand how you could just treat it as non human because of its size and frail nature. "It cannot breathe. It cannot function on it's own." isn't an argument because many people who have been in serious accidents are in the same position, but we do not kill them because they are inconvenient..
I think you are confusing my 2 month cut off limit to banning abortions all together.
I know you are expressing you opinion, but I am having trouble understanding how you got to such opinion. A 2 month old fetus has a brain, spine and heart.. I don't understand how you could just treat it as non human because of its size and frail nature. "It cannot breathe. It cannot function on it's own." isn't an argument because many people who have been in serious accidents are in the same position, but we do not kill them because they are inconvenient..
I think you are confusing my 2 month cut off limit to banning abortions all together.
I don't know how I "got" my opinion - it just is my opinion. Will my opinion change once I have a child - perhaps. All I know is that I don't consider it murder for someone to get an abortion in the first trimester. In my mind, I see a fetus that is an inch long that cannot live on it's own, and never has - to be vastly different than a human being that has been in an accident and has to be on life support. It's like apples and oranges to me. I can see that it is not to you. I can look at things logically - but some issues are emotional as well. I could look into and use data justify my opinion - but to me, it boils down to an emotional issue. There was a time when I was a teenager - that if I had gotten pregnant - I would have felt that my life was over. I would have felt embarassed and ashamed and humiliated. Even though my parents would have been there for me -I'm not sure I would have even gone to them. I would have been absolutely devastated. I probably would have gotten an abortion all by myself and never told anyone about it. If I hadn't been able to get one- I probably would have tried to do anything to get rid of it on my own. I remember how it felt to feel that way. I'm lucky - I never got pregnant. I was always safe and the protection worked. Now, I'm trying to get pregnant - so obviously I don't feel the same way that I felt then. Obviously, my perspective has changed. Obviously, I understand that having an abortion is way more traumatic than I could have understood back then. However, I remember how it felt to be that young and afraid - and I think all women should have options. It's just my opinion. I got it because of who I am and how I think and how I feel. I'm not a scientist. I'm a woman.
A 2 month old fetus has a brain, spine and heart.. I don't understand how you could just treat it as non human because of its size and frail nature. .
How very interesting that you don't feel as if you understand how someone could not treat a fetus as a human, and yet you yourself referred to the 2 month old as you did...not as a human- but as a fetus. And an "IT".
It seems you understand very well that there is a definite and very specific difference between a fetus and a human, and that they are NOT one in the same. Perhaps you are wiser than you yourself realize...
I don't know how I "got" my opinion - it just is my opinion. Will my opinion change once I have a child - perhaps. All I know is that I don't consider it murder for someone to get an abortion in the first trimester. In my mind, I see a fetus that is an inch long that cannot live on it's own, and never has - to be vastly different than a human being that has been in an accident and has to be on life support. It's like apples and oranges to me. I can see that it is not to you. I can look at things logically - but some issues are emotional as well. I could look into and use data justify my opinion - but to me, it boils down to an emotional issue. There was a time when I was a teenager - that if I had gotten pregnant - I would have felt that my life was over. I would have felt embarassed and ashamed and humiliated. Even though my parents would have been there for me -I'm not sure I would have even gone to them. I would have been absolutely devastated. I probably would have gotten an abortion all by myself and never told anyone about it. If I hadn't been able to get one- I probably would have tried to do anything to get rid of it on my own. I remember how it felt to feel that way. I'm lucky - I never got pregnant. I was always safe and the protection worked. Now, I'm trying to get pregnant - so obviously I don't feel the same way that I felt then. Obviously, my perspective has changed. Obviously, I understand that having an abortion is way more traumatic than I could have understood back then. However, I remember how it felt to be that young and afraid - and I think all women should have options. It's just my opinion. I got it because of who I am and how I think and how I feel. I'm not a scientist. I'm a woman.
I respect your decision because I am no militant. My question is, at what second of the pregnancy does one consider the fetus to be human? What about the second before that? It is a very difficult issue due to the social ramifications. There are many reasons why someone might consider having an abortion. My big problem with those reasons is that they usually (I make huge exceptions do to rape/incest/threat to the mother's life) stem from an initial irresponsibility and selfishness. People make the choice to engage in sexual behavior in these instances. Education can go a long way towards making abortions obsolete. We really can be above this. We just have to really try.
How very interesting that you don't feel as if you understand how someone could not treat a fetus as a human, and yet you yourself referred to the 2 month old as you did...not as a human- but as a fetus. And an "IT".
It seems you understand very well that there is a definite and very specific difference between a fetus and a human, and that they are NOT one in the same. Perhaps you are wiser than you yourself realize...
It was obviously a gender inspecific term here. Come on. The same reference could have been made by substituting the words "Human Being".
How very interesting that you don't feel as if you understand how someone could not treat a fetus as a human, and yet you yourself referred to the 2 month old as you did...not as a human- but as a fetus. And an "IT".
It seems you understand very well that there is a definite and very specific difference between a fetus and a human, and that they are NOT one in the same. Perhaps you are wiser than you yourself realize...
I do not know the sex, if "it" has any at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
I don't know how I "got" my opinion - it just is my opinion. Will my opinion change once I have a child - perhaps. All I know is that I don't consider it murder for someone to get an abortion in the first trimester. In my mind, I see a fetus that is an inch long that cannot live on it's own, and never has - to be vastly different than a human being that has been in an accident and has to be on life support. It's like apples and oranges to me. I can see that it is not to you. I can look at things logically - but some issues are emotional as well. I could look into and use data justify my opinion - but to me, it boils down to an emotional issue. There was a time when I was a teenager - that if I had gotten pregnant - I would have felt that my life was over. I would have felt embarassed and ashamed and humiliated. Even though my parents would have been there for me -I'm not sure I would have even gone to them. I would have been absolutely devastated. I probably would have gotten an abortion all by myself and never told anyone about it. If I hadn't been able to get one- I probably would have tried to do anything to get rid of it on my own. I remember how it felt to feel that way. I'm lucky - I never got pregnant. I was always safe and the protection worked. Now, I'm trying to get pregnant - so obviously I don't feel the same way that I felt then. Obviously, my perspective has changed. Obviously, I understand that having an abortion is way more traumatic than I could have understood back then. However, I remember how it felt to be that young and afraid - and I think all women should have options. It's just my opinion. I got it because of who I am and how I think and how I feel. I'm not a scientist. I'm a woman.
You really don't listen to what I say do you....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna
Interesting article on new research that has influenced abortion policy in England.
Maybe if we actually looked at the realities instead of the emotive diatribe we would have a better understanding of the issues around abortion.
That's interesting, if they are correct, then we have an approximate cut off point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog
I respect your decision because I am no militant. My question is, at what second of the pregnancy does one consider the fetus to be human? What about the second before that? It is a very difficult issue due to the social ramifications. There are many reasons why someone might consider having an abortion. My big problem with those reasons is that they usually (I make huge exceptions do to rape/incest/threat to the mother's life) stem from an initial irresponsibility and selfishness. People make the choice to engage in sexual behavior in these instances. Education can go a long way towards making abortions obsolete. We really can be above this. We just have to really try.
Until we have a full proof contraception, abortions will always be a necessary part of society..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog
It was obviously a gender inspecific term here. Come on. The same reference could have been made by substituting the words "Human Being".
True story: Two groups, one pro-choice and one anti-abortion. They debated for months but got nowhere. At some point they decided to see if they could find any common ground. Eventually they found one: BOTH sides wanted to reduce the number of abortions. So they eventually published a statement supporting sex education and family planning.
That's all I can recall at the moment. Maybe later I could give you links to the details, if anyone is interested.
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