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Old 10-22-2010, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,436 posts, read 4,857,060 times
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This is from the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium); “The body of the faithful as a whole, anointed as they are by the Holy Spirit, cannot err, cannot make a mistake, in matters of belief. Thanks to a supernatural sense of the faith, which characterizes the people as a whole, it manifests this unerring quality, when from the bishops down to the last number of the laity, it shows universal agreement in matters of faith and morals.” This is an astounding passage! It places the source of Catholic conviction about the truths of the faith first and foremost in the people as a whole. This is where the Holy Spirit principally dwells; and this is where anybody must go to discern what is to be believed and what isn’t.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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It is often said at these forums that I march to a different drum, that because of what I say I should leave the Catholic Church and either join a Protestant Church or start my own Church.
I really don't think I should have to do either, as you can see from my opening post the Catholic Church and I are in agreement, but not the hierarchy, they are the ones that march to a different drum.

Last edited by ted08721; 10-22-2010 at 07:16 AM..
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:43 AM
 
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You might get more response on the christianity forum.
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:09 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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I do agree this fits the Christian section better.

Also as I already told you all Catholics are not in agreement on women priests, married priests, or homosexuality. Even in the "traditionally Catholic" nations of Europe, Latin America, and the Philippines we are not. So change in these areas is not justified by this quote.
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
or start my own Church.
I know of a person that once thought of starting his own religion.

He called it the Resettists of the Fifth, and while it was more an intellectual exercise, it had an interesting premise:

Resettistism states that humanity as a whole constantly reaches a certain level of development and is then everything is 'reset' to its original, non-developed state. According to Resettist doctrine, this is the fifth time such a reset has occurred.
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Old 10-23-2010, 12:57 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,504,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
This is from the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium); “The body of the faithful as a whole, anointed as they are by the Holy Spirit, cannot err, cannot make a mistake, in matters of belief. Thanks to a supernatural sense of the faith, which characterizes the people as a whole, it manifests this unerring quality, when from the bishops down to the last number of the laity, it shows universal agreement in matters of faith and morals."
Looking it up this actually cuts a paragraph in half. The rest of the paragraph is

"That discernment in matters of faith is aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth. It is exercised under the guidance of the sacred teaching authority, in faithful and respectful obedience to which the people of God accepts that which is not just the word of men but truly the word of God.(112) Through it, the people of God adheres unwaveringly to the faith given once and for all to the saints,(113) penetrates it more deeply with right thinking, and applies it more fully in its life."

I guess my concern is that you sidestep issues about teaching authority, the faith of the saints, and the sacred teaching authority.

Moving to Chapter III the document states

"This Sacred Council, following closely in the footsteps of the First Vatican Council, with that Council teaches and declares that Jesus Christ, the eternal Shepherd, established His holy Church, having sent forth the apostles as He Himself had been sent by the Father;(136) and He willed that their successors, namely the bishops, should be shepherds in His Church even to the consummation of the world. And in order that the episcopate itself might be one and undivided, He placed Blessed Peter over the other apostles, and instituted in him a permanent and visible source and foundation of unity of faith and communion.(1*) And all this teaching about the institution, the perpetuity, the meaning and reason for the sacred primacy of the Roman Pontiff and of his infallible magisterium, this Sacred Council again proposes to be firmly believed by all the faithful. Continuing in that same undertaking, this Council is resolved to declare and proclaim before all men the doctrine concerning bishops, the successors of the apostles, who together with the successor of Peter, the Vicar of Christ,(2*) the visible Head of the whole Church, govern the house of the living God."

So the document does not negate the Pope as having an infallible magisterium, which I think you come close to doing.
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