Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well. I'll play along because the believers were kind enough to play along on a pretty controversial topic (at least for them in my view) a few days ago.
Assuming the bible were 100% true, I would have to say that a God who apparently loves us so much, and knows how fallible we are as a race, would allow us into Heaven if we were faced with the alternative. I would like to think something so gracious and eloquent as a God would find no fault with our earthly beings because of what we did or said. For me, I'd think that if I were to die an atheist and go up to the gates of heaven I'd probably be asked "Do you believe now?" I'd say yes and go in and party like it's eternity. I just don't see a God who loves us so much punishing a "soul" for what it's body did back on Earth. Just doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Well, for that matter believing in any of this stuff doesn't make much sense to me but, like I said I'd play along
I'll play too, and Jeff......sorry, but we agree again! If god taught us to love our enemies, and do good to them that hate us, can we expect god to do less?
I don't believe the scripture u r speaking about has anything to do with coercion or praise being forced. GOD does not even force anyone to believe in HIM or on HIS SON-Jesus Christ. "Freewill" was HIS idea. HE has not changed HIS mind. At that time when no one is deceived and the Lord is beheld every knee will bow and every tongue will (as an act of freewill) confess Jesus is Lord. What else would u say in HIS presence? It is like the angels around the thrown...they cry "Holy..." not out of coercion, but beacuase it is the truth
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,388,203 times
Reputation: 3539
My choice isn't represented. I believe the verses in Philippians are simply a statement of fact.
My resources state that the word translated "confess" can mean praise and worship; it can also mean "admit." Christians will joyfully and willingly bow down and confess Jesus Christ is Lord, with much praise and thanksgiving. However, I don't see this happening with unbelievers. They will bow and confess not because they are offering praise and worship but because it becomes painfully obvious that Jesus is Lord. They will finally have to admit the truth and acknowledge they were wrong, not because they're being forced to but because it's the truth. I imagine many will be doing this with gritted teeth, just like a George Bush hater will be polite to him in the White House only because he is President of the United States.
The other scenario I can imagine playing out is that now the unbelievers know that Jesus is Lord, they are going to be saying, "Oh, c**p! I was wrong. I better get on the bandwagon or else I'm going to be spending an eternity in Hell." They won't desire the relationship for who Jesus is, but for what they can avoid. They might even offer false praise and worship. Jesus stated that many will come to Him saying, "Lord, Lord!" (A public confession if ever I heard one.) But He will turn them away, saying, "Depart from me. I never knew you."
The obvious fact that Jesus is Lord does not automatically lead to praise and worship, just like knowing the wonderful owner of a company doesn't lead to love and respect by his employees. Sometimes, this knowledge leads to loathing and rebellion because we can't have things our way, we don't get the attention we feel we're owed, or we're not in charge. James tells us that even the demons believe (and tremble!). The demons know Jesus is Lord, but they're not praising and worshiping Him; they are in rebellion.
My choice isn't represented. I believe the verses in Philippians are simply a statement of fact.
My resources state that the word translated "confess" can mean praise and worship; it can also mean "admit." Christians will joyfully and willingly bow down and confess Jesus Christ is Lord, with much praise and thanksgiving. However, I don't see this happening with unbelievers. They will bow and confess not because they are offering praise and worship but because it becomes painfully obvious that Jesus is Lord. They will finally have to admit the truth and acknowledge they were wrong, not because they're being forced to but because it's the truth. I imagine many will be doing this with gritted teeth, just like a George Bush hater will be polite to him in the White House only because he is President of the United States.
The other scenario I can imagine playing out is that now the unbelievers know that Jesus is Lord, they are going to be saying, "Oh, c**p! I was wrong. I better get on the bandwagon or else I'm going to be spending an eternity in Hell." They won't desire the relationship for who Jesus is, but for what they can avoid. They might even offer false praise and worship. Jesus stated that many will come to Him saying, "Lord, Lord!" (A public confession if ever I heard one.) But He will turn them away, saying, "Depart from me. I never knew you."
The obvious fact that Jesus is Lord does not automatically lead to praise and worship, just like knowing the wonderful owner of a company doesn't lead to love and respect by his employees. Sometimes, this knowledge leads to loathing and rebellion because we can't have things our way, we don't get the attention we feel we're owed, or we're not in charge. James tells us that even the demons believe (and tremble!). The demons know Jesus is Lord, but they're not praising and worshiping Him; they are in rebellion.
Drat! Came in late on this thread. Blueberry, this is a great response, and I agree totally!
the difference between the two above is that one is asking about worship and the second one is talking about confession.
Rom 14:11 - For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Confess what?
Phil 2:10-11 - That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
this confession that the bible is talking about that is so great that the weight of WHOLE TRUTH before ones face can no longer be denied. so matchless will it be known that God was merciful and patient for those to come to him for salvation, and yet is was cast off like an old coat will slam into the faces of those guilty of rejecting Christ until surly the knees will buckle and the whole soul flooded with truth so high, so wide, so thick that ones mouth will utter pour out what cannot be contained by anything or anyone less than God. for the evil doer it will be shame at it's most colossal, and immeasurable guilt will be laid to their charge.
for the wicket it is to be covered in extravagant blame, remorse and endless regret that even ones own memories of every rejection of Christ cannot be silenced. for lack of a better example I'd say this; the knee bending and mouth confessing will be much like stepping out of total darkness into the blazing sunshine put to your entire face. you will squint, turn your face away, and release some utterance relating to the powerful impact of flaming light. now consider if you can the brilliance of God Eternal.
for the believer who bows the knees, and confess that Jesus is Lord will all be apart of their most familiar and adored lifestyle of worship. it will be an honor upon honors to do this, and one which we could never have enough of. we will be doing what we know without question we were given life to do. this will be ease and dellight all rolled up in bliss for us saints. we will be living our choice made in God's desire, and this kind of one accordness to a believer is all the heaven we need eventhought there will be more heaven to experience.
so there's no forcing knees to bow, and mouths made to confess, just jaw dropping, knee buckling power to behold. the raw majesty of God does that ya know?
Hi, I believe that this confession will be done in worship willingly, joyfully, and thankfully. It will be to the glory of God. The act of bowing will be done as an act of worship, and all of creation will be seen praising God according to Rev.5.
As far as it being done as an act of free will, I don’t believe so because I believe that God has designed to become all in all eventually. (1 Cor. 15) If He has designed this and if all is out of Him, then all is being brought about by Him. He works all things according to the counsel of His will according to Ephesians 1. All are to be subjected to Him that He may be all in all and the idea of subjection means that someone (God) is sovereign over others who will be made subject to Him. So yes, this to me means that some type of force will be applied and is being applied now, even though we may not be aware of it. Do I believe that God will force people to worship Him against their will? I don’t believe so. I believe that through His influence they will be convinced by Him and will willingly come to Him. Their wills will change when they realize the truth and they will be reconciled to Him - all people.
Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope21. that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-17-2008 at 08:12 PM..
for the sake of being an atheist, I say the cosmic car cause it sounds fun. Reminds me of "the magic school bus" with Ms Frizzle.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
oll
and the second one is talking about confession
.
