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the "fact" that i cannot (sufficiently??) prove god exists does not mean i cannot understand (and know, yes!) what "his inventors" intentions were.
and i have come to find them noble as well as humble.
therefore, where would i get my ethics code and/or moral standards from?
personally, i would find it intellectually dishonest to claim them as my own invention. not in the world i was born into and raised.
it is very well to say (as i do, and owing to a certain culture i cannot just ban from my memory!), what i like or dislike about ideas others' interpretations of scriptural "reports" should mean to me and everyone else: not so! i might have to use the same scriptures to confirm my understanding.
otherwise, where is the (free? voluntary?) goodwill to appropriately communicate with each other? plain overkill seeking cannot be what gets us to even a remote semblance of social justice.
For people that are so sure (I would love to see answers from both atheists and religious people), how can you be so sure since there is no irrefutable proof either way?
I don't think many athiests are so set in their belief that if ANY true evidence were ever discovered, they wouldn't review and reconsider. I think most atheists arrived at their beliefs through a logical method. If any point in that logic was found to be flawed, it would no longer necessarily be logical, and thus open to reconsideration.
For now though, I have faith (yes, I use that word on purpose, look up the definition, it isn't a religious word primarily) that I have made a logical decision.
I am a strong atheist (I believe there is no such thing as any god), but I am always open to new evidence. It has to be true evidence though, not just personal experiences or testimony.
As for the subject of the thread.
1) I have a lack of faith in god/gods. I do not have a lack of faith in everything. I have faith that my husband isn't cheating on me. I have faith in my ability to drive to work every day. I have faith that my Cheerios I eat for breakfast are really Cheerios and not tiny life preservers for tiny people. I have a lot of faith in the scientific method. Faith isn't a dirty word to atheists. It just means a belief that something is true.
2) I question everything, all the time, so of course I question my disbelief in a higher power. Questioning is healthy. However, the question I ask myself most is "is there any reason to believe I am mistaken?" and since the answer thus far has been "no", I don't question very long. So, the answer to the spirit of your question is no, I don't doubt my decision, and have never been tempted to join the "other side". I would say I started out as an agnostic, and the more I learn, the more I believe god is a fictitious character in the most bestselling novel of all time.
For people that are so sure (I would love to see answers from both atheists and religious people), how can you be so sure since there is no irrefutable proof either way?
I'm not sure beyond a doubt that a God doesn't exist at all. I'm what you may call an agnostic atheist. I can't speak for anyone else, but, I'm not one to say that God doesn't exist at all. That's a logical fallacy; there is no way in the world I could know that. But, when I say, I don't believe in your God - it's as that - I don't believe in your God. Could he/she/it exist? Yea, of course. But, I put that probability of it existing in the same category as the Tooth Fairy, Santa, and any other imaginary character that has been and will come. I can't prove they don't exist, and I can't prove they do. However, if evidence ever comes to light to the contraire, I'll believe it.
I am solid in my confidence that there is no god that cares about me believing in it. I always question whether there is any god at all, but it is absurd to think that blind faith is more important than anything else, as much of the religious dogma teaches. I used to go to church camp, and one of the things I remember hearing was that the only way to go to hell was to not believe.
For a couple of years in high school, I was terrified of my questioning. It was a long, slow and scary process losing my faith. After all, God could be listening to my thoughts, ready to send me to hell for eternity for my thought crimes.
For now though, I have faith (yes, I use that word on purpose, look up the definition, it isn't a religious word primarily) that I have made a logical decision.
1)I have faith that my husband isn't cheating on me. I have faith in my ability to drive to work every day. I have faith that my Cheerios I eat for breakfast are really Cheerios and not tiny life preservers for tiny people. I have a lot of faith in the scientific method. Faith isn't a dirty word to atheists. It just means a belief that something is true.
Would that be trust rather than faith? Is there a difference.....I think so.
My definition for your consideration:
Faith is the belief that something is true even though there is no evidence that it is.
Trust is believing that something is true based on the conclusive evidence of the past.
Examples:
We do not have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. We trust that it will based on the conclusive and verifiable evidence that it has done so every other morning.
I do not have faith that my car will start today. I trust that it will because it has started every other day.
Now, if for 9 out of every 10 times that I tried to start my car...it has failed to start, then it could be said that I have faith that it will start because the verifiable evidence has shown that it is not true that my car always starts.... but I have faith that it will.
...Or are trust and faith the same thing....'Dunno!!
Damn, now I've confused myself.
the equivalent of any "religious" dogma might come from sources that simply cannot or will not admit their "replacement" ideas to be just as cheap and bad and possibly mind and soul damaging -- beyond questioning.
instead of berating and beating each other, there could have been a lively, interesting and beneficial exchange of really free thoughts, helping all of the participants on this forum to the self awareness and realization in a world needier than ever before. IMHO!
got no one else to blame for a failing global system? not yourself? no: each other! how sophisticated! sorry.
got no other way of expressing closing ranks (i vs. u; we vs. them)? sure makes for great neighborhood and some authority policing the internet world like the abolished god before...
(sure need no scriptures for proof anymore, now. IMHO)
I am always and constantly questioning my 'faith'. I am currently an Atheist leaning pagan, but I don't believe rigidity is good for people like me. I like to learn, experience new things and change my mind all the time... I am a woman after all
I hope I never settle on any one thing or belief but that I can always change and learn new things.
I can't tell if I have offended you. You write in a way that seems kind of angry and more than a little cynical. It's possible I misinterpreted something you said and responded to the masses rather than to you specifically. Please know that I am always interested in discussion. My one criticism is that your writings seem to indicate that we should be able to know what you know, before you present it. I also can't really tell if your arguments are for or against, so I personally am nonplussed.
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