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You're right, it doesn't. Millions of people believe in astrology which can't possibly be true and it can be shown to be false in a number of ways but that doesn't stop the people who believe it. I feel that rational thinking and an open mind are the best tools we have to weed out the false beliefs from those that are factual. That's why I'm an atheist.
As usual , intelligent and logical answer. You are a shining example to us Atheists. Bravo, Bravo,Bravo !
Exactly. The popularity of a belief, or a lack thereof, means nothing. That's why I go by available evidence, and try to stay away from propositions that are impossible to substantiate.
Which is why I'm neither religious nor a hardcore atheist. Neither stance can be proved, although the atheist stance, given the available evidence, is far more likely. But until a god can be proved or disproved, I'm forced to default to agnostic.
I don't know how that relates to what I've been posting. I've been posting examples of people's experience of the afterlife much more than I've been quoting the Bible.
It relates because people live in a society where they've been conditioned -- usually, in our case, by Bible stories -- to expect certain things to happen when they die. When they think those things happen, they also think the things they were raised to believe have become substantiated.
If you had a NDE, you would most likely feel otherwise.
I'll repeat what I said... many people who have had a NDE are more religious, appreciate life more and know what will happen to them when they "die." But I haven't read one case in which someone had a NDE and said there was nothing beyond mortal life. In other words, the case for the afterlife is far, far more convincing than the case against it.
That is a lot more logical than what you posted!
How is it more logical or convincing to believe that some ghostly version of me will carry on, over the idea that when we die, we just simply die? Again, this is proof that people are conditioned to believe certain propositions upon death, and when they think those things are happening, they also think that's evidence of those propositions. For all we know, the "white light" and seeing dead friends and relatives are merely the actions of a dying brain, making us experience what we WANT to experience, because it brings us comfort in those final moments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
I'll also repeat something else I said... the belief of an afterlife, in which you are reunited with family and friends and are pain-free and in perfect health is a lot more cheerful and gives more peace of mind than what you think happens after we die.
Which proves my point about WANTING something to be true versus analyzing whether it's actually very likely to happen. This is exactly the problem with such beliefs. You appear to cling to them because they make you feel better about what happens to you after you die. Not because the belief makes any logical sense, but because this is what you WANT to happen. I think it would be nice to live pain-free and be reunited with my dead friends and relatives, too, but wishing doesn't make it so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
So you can stay with your depressing belief, we who have faith will keep our encouraging belief.
I don't find my "belief" depressing at all. In fact, I'm a lot less neurotic since giving up religion. Believing that this life is probably all I have, I'm determined to make the most of it. That doesn't mean doing whatever I want, since a lot of people think nonbelievers are aimless and immoral. Quite the contrary -- it encourages me all the more to make a positive difference in the world in the few years I have on this planet.
I've had variations on this argument dozens of times, and I think it's fairly clear that there's no amount of talking I can do to make you see anything other than what you want to see. I've been down your path -- raised on it, in fact -- and I choose a different one. It's one that you will probably never choose. So I'll simply bow out with two of my favorite quotes as they regard religion:
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." -- Mark Twain
---
STUDENT: Master, what happens to us when we die?
ZEN MASTER: How should I know?
STUDENT: But you are an enlightened master!
ZEN MASTER: Yes, but I am not a dead one.
How is it more logical or convincing to believe that some ghostly version of me will carry on, over the idea that when we die, we just simply die? Again, this is proof that people are conditioned to believe certain propositions upon death, and when they think those things are happening, they also think that's evidence of those propositions. For all we know, the "white light" and seeing dead friends and relatives are merely the actions of a dying brain, making us experience what we WANT to experience, because it brings us comfort in those final moments.
Which proves my point about WANTING something to be true versus analyzing whether it's actually very likely to happen. This is exactly the problem with such beliefs. You appear to cling to them because they make you feel better about what happens to you after you die. Not because the belief makes any logical sense, but because this is what you WANT to happen. I think it would be nice to live pain-free and be reunited with my dead friends and relatives, too, but wishing doesn't make it so.
I don't find my "belief" depressing at all. In fact, I'm a lot less neurotic since giving up religion. Believing that this life is probably all I have, I'm determined to make the most of it. That doesn't mean doing whatever I want, since a lot of people think nonbelievers are aimless and immoral. Quite the contrary -- it encourages me all the more to make a positive difference in the world in the few years I have on this planet.
I've had variations on this argument dozens of times, and I think it's fairly clear that there's no amount of talking I can do to make you see anything other than what you want to see. I've been down your path -- raised on it, in fact -- and I choose a different one. It's one that you will probably never choose. So I'll simply bow out with two of my favorite quotes as they regard religion:
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." -- Mark Twain
---
STUDENT: Master, what happens to us when we die?
ZEN MASTER: How should I know?
STUDENT: But you are an enlightened master!
ZEN MASTER: Yes, but I am not a dead one.
You are completely wasting your breath with this one, trust me , logic has very little to do with some posters. Been there, done that, got bored and tired, very tired !
STUDENT: Master, what happens to us when we die?
ZEN MASTER: How should I know?
STUDENT: But you are an enlightened master!
ZEN MASTER: Yes, but I am not a dead one.
Being dead and then coming back to life is impossible.
But that idea makes for an interesting story...read "The Fall Of The House Of Usher" by Edgar Allen Poe. He wrote amazing fiction.
You are completely wasting your breath with this one, trust me , logic has very little to do with some posters. Been there, done that, got bored and tired, very tired !
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll definitely expend my energies elsewhere.
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Zen koans!
