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Old 08-16-2009, 10:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
But what, sir, constitutes memory?

An electrical impulse bouncing about the same neurons over and over? Or a chemical signature resting within the brain?

Both. It requires both electrical and chemical activity working together. There's also more to it than that. But that doesn't mean that the electrical impulses necessarily follow the same path all the time. Evidently, they can use other paths. It's still not clear exactly how the brain stores memory. For example, in some instances of radical brain surgery, even the removal of an entire hemisphere, with a lot of therapy the brain can reroute signals and even can retain much of what was present before the surgery. They still remember who they are, learn to do things again, etc. Of course, it can also be a very slow process.

I would think though, if the entire brain were shut down for an indefinite period of time, the memory might become completely blank. That could cause a host of problems because the brain is needed for even the most primative automatic body functions that help enable the body to live. There's some kind of activity going on even at the level of cells, proteins, DNA, and so on. But if it all comes to a halt, I dunno, that may be the end of it with no hope to restore or reanimate that life again.

There is a notion that is thought to be a way around that though. If the patterns in the brain that enable us to have memory can somehow be downloaded and stored, then it's possible it could be later uploaded during the reanimation process. The problem is that if the future technology that could provide successful memory uploading is vastly different than when the memory was downloaded, well, the thawed individual might still remain just a dead piece of meat.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:55 AM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,218,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Both. It requires both electrical and chemical activity working together. There's also more to it than that. But that doesn't mean that the electrical impulses necessarily follow the same path all the time. Evidently, they can use other paths. It's still not clear exactly how the brain stores memory. For example, in some instances of radical brain surgery, even the removal of an entire hemisphere, with a lot of therapy the brain can reroute signals and even can retain much of what was present before the surgery. They still remember who they are, learn to do things again, etc. Of course, it can also be a very slow process.

I would think though, if the entire brain were shut down for an indefinite period of time, the memory might become completely blank. That could cause a host of problems because the brain is needed for even the most primative automatic body functions that help enable the body to live. There's some kind of activity going on even at the level of cells, proteins, DNA, and so on. But if it all comes to a halt, I dunno, that may be the end of it with no hope to restore or reanimate that life again.

There is a notion that is thought to be a way around that though. If the patterns in the brain that enable us to have memory can somehow be downloaded and stored, then it's possible it could be later uploaded during the reanimation process. The problem is that if the future technology that could provide successful memory uploading is vastly different than when the memory was downloaded, well, the thawed individual might still remain just a dead piece of meat.
Bit of a loaded question, I'm afraid.

We are, of course, unsure of the exact processes of memory and recall.

Until someone is awoken, I'm afraid it's all mere conjecture.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:17 PM
 
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there is no soul or god. you go blank and black in your mind, and go into a internal sleep forever
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:25 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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Well now, let me think..... OK, since I do not believe in the god thingy, I also do not believe in the heaven thingy or the hell thingy, but, if this myth has even a shred of truth, doubtful at best, then I would probably be in the mythological hell place and ........., I would not mind one bit being brought back to life and therefore given the opportunity to flirt with a few hundred more women.
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwlnd View Post
there is no soul or god. you go blank and black in your mind, and go into a internal sleep forever
But that's not the point. The object of cryogenically freezing a person is that at some point in the future it may be possible to revive the person as well as resolve the problem that caused death in the first place. As it stands now, various organs, tissues, etc., can be usable as transplants. If you die and a piece of you is used as a transplant, a part of you would still be living even though that part is incapable of independent thought. So how would that fit in with death?

Personally, I think the idea of cryogenic freezing a person (after they've already been declared dead) is primarily wishful thinking. There's no assurance that your frozen remains will be around 1000, 100,000, or a million years from now. All it would take is for the power supply to shut down or the equipment to fail for a while. You'd turn into useless mush.

Some people seem to think they'd rather not have to return to the worn out bodies they had before they died. Makes sense to me. But on the other hand, if it were possible to revive a cryogenically frozen body sometime in the future, then I would think it would also be possible to resolve not only the cause of death, but restore complete health to the individual, enabling a much longer life and a more youthful body.

The downside might be having to try to adjust to the confusion of a completely different world than you knew before you died. In addition, assuming that your memory could somehow be restored, at least to what you remembered before you died, what kind of contribution could you make to a society that's 100,000 years or a million years more advanced than the one you left behind? That said, there'd be no practical advantage to revive someone other than to prove it could be done. You might end up in a zoo as a mere curiosity.

Apart from all that, there's the question as to whether the facilities and equipment holding your cryogenically frozen remains would even exist in the future for any of a wide number of reasons. Nothing stays the same indefinitely. Frankly, I think cryogenic freezing is one of those fringe money-making ideas that could amount to nothing as envisioned. Still, some people feel better about it than to be left just to rot or be incinerated to ash. And other people are more than willing to take full advantage of freezing you in exchange for your cash. I think it's generally a policy that such facilities provide no guarantee that you'll ever be revived in the future.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:21 AM
 
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Default Scientific advancement and cryogenics

Theoretically speaking the ability to freeze and reanimate a human body sounds crazy and impossible but if you take some time to think about the possibility of this then it starts to sound like a very real possibility in the next 100 years or so. There are animals such as frogs and squirrels that can do this in nature with no help from science. Scientist have found a way to cryongenically freeze animal organs such as a rabbit kidney and then reanimate the organ and transplant it into a living rabbit and the rabbit lived a full life with no complications. A human body is much more complex but advancements in science and technology such as nano technology and stem cell therapy may one day be able to repair any damage done by the cryogenic freezing process. what sounded like science fiction in the past has become science fact. landind on the moon was once thought impossible and was considisered science fiction but has since became science fact. landing a craft on mars was considered impossible but we pulled that off.genetic cloning was once thought impossible but we now know it is entirely possible on some levels. the realm of possibility expands as science and technology grow and advance so things once considered impossible start to fall into the realm of possibility. it sounds crazy to poeple now but i think it will be possible to one day reanimate a frozed body and that will open up an entirely new debate over morality,religon,and ethics just as stem cell research and cloning has.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,994,274 times
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Default The cold, hard truth.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyb123 View Post
I would not like to give up the paradise that is heaven just so that some sleezy scientist can make a few bucks. Coming back to this planet would be like hell.
Hee hee. Always with us evil scientists, huh? And all we ever wanted to do was answer a few of life's little questions, and then use those answers to improve everyone's lives. Sigh. The Rodney Dangerfield Syndrome: "I can't get no respect!"

Anyhow, I'd say there's probably more than one biochemical condition that would need to be met, depending on the various organs needing to be simultaneously maintained in a pristine condition for, say, 1000 years. And then there's long-term dessication, also known as "freezer burn", to deal with. So yeah; we first chemically treat it, and then immerse the body in an environment of some cold, inert gas, but chemically that reacts with all the diverse cellular chemistries in varying ways. Some might be OK with it, others not.

As others have speculated, there's also the issue of memory. We like to assume, in our fantasy dreams, that we would find ourselves waking up pleasantly, as if from a surgery for instance, a few oddly dressed folks crowding around us telling us "It's OK. You've woken up in the year 46,792.56. Care for a Big Mac?" [Hey... some things just won't die at all, no matter how you try...]..

But we hope to clearly remember old Aunt Sally teary-eyed by your previous death bed, clutching her dog-eared bible, as the cold-eyed doc threw the big cryo-flood switch and it got intolerably chilly for a few moments? Yah think that's how it will be?

Some folks, a whole lot of them really, have a spectacularly hard time dealing with the "here and now", as well as the inevitability of an absolute death. I mean, hey: they realize by the time they're about 43 yrs old that it all really hasn't gone too swimmingly well for them; they're into their second messy divorce, their bodies are beginning to droop, and they're financially desperate thanks to Wall Street greed.

So, they now turn to the God Delusion, those suddenly remembered Sunday School lesson promises of an easy "out" to this hell. It's apparent in a lot of their post-quotes: why would I want to come back to this hell? Why would I want to come back with this body? (but what if you died when you were 17 years old, of some nasty invasive disease, but were otherwise quite fit?). Still so completely unlikely, and at any rate, you'd probably only be technically alive, not bouncing out of the New Age Re-Birthing Center ( "A Division of Wal-Mart/Guthy-Renker/Amex/Lehman Brothers™), all joyous and full of life, but psychologically, mind-bogglingly staggered by the Brave New World you're suddenly thrust into. everything you depended on to get you through life is but an ancient memory, and folks laugh out loud as you recount your avid Christian or Buddhist or Muslim beliefs.

"Heck; we not only make life every day at the 7-11 life-dispenser machine, but we can evolve it there as well, with an i-Pod app [more stuff we can never get rid of...] into whatever we want! That half cat-half dog you always wanted to see? Hey! No problem!)
.

Which brings up the other issue of you also having to face what science has "discovered" in the meantime. I predict that old-fashioned religion, with it's unquestioning adherence to by-then VERY old and systematically disproven mythologies, will be deader that a 6 month-old road-killed skunk. Remember: you may have to face that cold reality as well. And that alone could be grounds for a subsequent suicide, after all that work to preserve and rebirth you.

How's about diligently working to leave a legacy of love and respect here and now, of perhaps your best writings or photographs or paintings or a music composition, or some imaginative and useful biochemical/medical research, or of being a great story-teller.

"Why I still remember Grampa's stories, and that was what? Over 85 years ago? So... did I ever tell you the one about...."


And so it goes; a true legacy of love and affection. In the end, that's likely all that we'll really get to leave. We won't be coming back, and in my HO, we also won't be going anywhere. Everyone's individual ideas of Heaven™ are so diffuse, diverse and illogical that it's just as obviously a persuasive ruse.

Last edited by rifleman; 04-22-2010 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:47 PM
 
Location: SoCal
3,860 posts, read 1,519,162 times
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In regards to the OP's question, and if an afterlife even exists, then No, I am extremely sceptical that this individual will remember anything from the afterlife if/when he/she is ever revived here on Earth.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Northeast
5,503 posts, read 2,163,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
In regards to the OP's question, and if an afterlife even exists, then No, I am extremely skeptical that this individual will remember anything from the afterlife if/when he/she is ever revived here on Earth.
I love how these six year old threads get revived periodically.

I don't understand why there is any basis to know one way or the other but it would certainly present a problem for a future Christian, for example, if people are revived and complain of being brought back from the endless sex with 42 virgins or for a Muslim who revives a former Muslim only to be told that Edgar Cayce was the one who had it right ...

I sense great material for a comedy skit here ...
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Default Heaven you say?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
I vote with the others: if I am in heaven, then there is NOTHING in this whole entire world you could give me to convince me to come back here....it is wonderful there, and it is quite rough going down here. They can give my body to science if they want, for study, frozen or not, whatever...I don't want it back!

Bud
But hey,wait now! You live in Alaska right, Bud? Then by any rational definition, you're already in heaven! No God required! Trust me: I've lived in southern California, Vancouver B.C. where I was born, in the Yukon (damned unpaved dusty washboard highways!), the NWT (back when they called it that...), and of course, Alaska.

Anchorage, Fairbanks (not really so nice, in fact..), up in Bettles, in "Kotz", up on the Noatak and John Rivers, and a few lovely other places. I'd give my failing health to be able to be back up there, wandering the Yukon River valley with my trusty Marlin 45-70, plus my Freedom Arms .454 Casull on my hip, and my wits about me. Plus, of course, a good DSL digital camera and a solar charger! And a new-age sat-phone that is fully internet compatible. Oh yeah, I'd also have to be 25 yrs old again.

Sigh... Oh well. So... can I come and live with you folks and you'll take care of me? Like... drive me to the hospital a few times a year and so on?

Enjoy it before health issues bring you down to the southern '48. I'm in central WA state right now: nice enough ,but hardly heaven!

Have a good'n before the snow flies and the nights get too damned long, my friend!
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