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Old 11-13-2010, 02:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Your appeals to authority mean very little, as most of your authorities are merely biased amateurs.
There was no attack. I merely pointed out the lack of qualifications of the people you quote.


Hershal Shanks, started the Biblical Archaeology Society. And Dr. Moller is equally qualified. Moller along with others spent tens years of his life working that area. And in fact, there are very few archaeologist that have spent that much time in that one area of the world. Suggesting that they both lack the qualifications, simply does not square with the facts. I might add here, that the Mt. Sinai site has now been confirmed by Dr. Manfred Biettak, Egyptologist, Professor, University of Liverpool, England. Professor Ken Kitchen, Egyptologist, Emeritus Professor, University of Liverpool, England. Dr. Ebba M. During, Archaeosteological Research Laboratory, Stockholm University, Sweden. Professor Alan Millard, Ranking Professor of Hebrew & Ancient Semitic Language University of Liverpool, England. Rabbi Manis Friedman, Biblical Scholar. Suggesting that all of these lack the qualifications would be just another myth believed by you.

Last edited by Campbell34; 11-13-2010 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 11-13-2010, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Planet Water
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Fascinating! No Egyptian documentation of the events described in Exodus?

There's no Egyptian documentation of how the pyramids were built either. Try to figure that one out.
All is simple. I always speak. Egyptians didn't build the main pyramids. Bible events - the Middle Ages. It always so in various cases. Also there were no antique cities. All it: "Middle Ages"
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,061,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Hershal Shanks, started the Biblical Archaeology Society. And Dr. Moller is equally qualified. Moller along with others spent tens years of his life working that area. And in fact, there are very few archaeologist that have spent that much time in that one area of the world. Suggesting that they both lack the qualifications, simply does not square with the facts. I might add here, that the Mt. Sinai site has now been confirmed by Dr. Manfred Biettak, Egyptologist, Professor, University of Liverpool, England. Professor Ken Kitchen, Egyptologist, Emeritus Professor, University of Liverpool, England. Dr. Ebba M. During, Archaeosteological Research Laboratory, Stockholm University, Sweden. Professor Alan Millard, Ranking Professor of Hebrew & Ancient Semitic Language University of Liverpool, England. Rabbi Manis Friedman, Biblical Scholar. Suggesting that all of these lack the qualifications would be just another myth believed by you.
Wow...You just listed a whole bunch of names you never mentioned before, but that still doesn't make you right.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:08 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,582,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Hershal Shanks, started the Biblical Archaeology Society. And Dr. Moller is equally qualified. Moller along with others spent tens years of his life working that area. And in fact, there are very few archaeologist that have spent that much time in that one area of the world. Suggesting that they both lack the qualifications, simply does not square with the facts. I might add here, that the Mt. Sinai site has now been confirmed by Dr. Manfred Biettak, Egyptologist, Professor, University of Liverpool, England. Professor Ken Kitchen, Egyptologist, Emeritus Professor, University of Liverpool, England. Dr. Ebba M. During, Archaeosteological Research Laboratory, Stockholm University, Sweden. Professor Alan Millard, Ranking Professor of Hebrew & Ancient Semitic Language University of Liverpool, England. Rabbi Manis Friedman, Biblical Scholar. Suggesting that all of these lack the qualifications would be just another myth believed by you.
Moller has no qualifications in any relevant field. He is qualified in Biology, I recall but is a pure amateur in archaology.

Apart from you transparent trick of accusing anyone who does not accept your claims at face value as being in denial, you have posted the items of evidence. I note one immediately as sounding more like a piece of Egyptian work as one would expect in an Egyptian - controlled area in Biblical times.

The other stuff shows signs of selective interpretation. How many drinkable and undrinkable springs are there in that area. Could one not plan a journey in many areas using the same parameters? Are there not a number of rocks which have splits in them and I note that rather Wyatt - like claim of scorch - marks on a mountain.

I would need some confirmation of the claim of writing in that cave, too. You will see this as denial of clear evidence, but the fact is, old chum, that far too much of this stuff has been shown to be eother irrelevant (like the solomon's pillars) unsubstantiated (like the coral 'chariot wheels') or total misrepresentatin like the Ahmose stele.

You already have the conclusion -it's all tru - and just look around for anything to confirm it. I have already said that I do not in principle deny the possibility of some historical basis for the exodus but it does need some evidence.

This needs checking. Now you have posted at least something to check, I can do a bit of work - which of course, you won't do because if these claims don't stand up, you would prefer not to know.

Now, as to the pyramids, there may not be documentary evidence (In fact I think there is some) but the fact of the pyramids and their construction and development is in the archaeological record.

There is as yet nothing reliable either documentary or archaeologically in support of the Exodus.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:02 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,582,163 times
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C34 "Hershal Shanks, started the Biblical Archaeology Society."

Hershel Shanks is "probably the world's most influential amateur Biblical archaeologist," wrote New York Times book critic Richard Bernstein.[1]

In a famous legal case before the Israeli Supreme Court in 1993 Shanks and others were successfully sued by leading Dead Sea Scrolls scholar Elisha Qimron for breach of copyright when Shanks published
material written by Qimron in A Facsimile Edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls without Qimron's permission. In 2000 Shanks' appeal against the earlier decision was dismissed.
(Wiki)

Amateur and a bit of a sharp operator, it seems

C34 "And Dr. Moller is equally qualified."

Lennart Moller specializes in the earth hazards of air pollutants and the damage to DNA that they cause. Since 2001, he has been a professor of environmental medicine in the department of bioscience at Karolinska Institutet, one of Europe's largest medical universities and Sweden's main center for medical training and research.

C34 "Moller along with others spent ten years of his life working that area. And in fact, there are very few archaeologist that have spent that much time in that one area of the world. Suggesting that they both lack the qualifications, simply does not square with the facts."


Shanks is an amateur and Moller is an amateur. They have dedicated themselves to proving the Bible literally true and have no qualifications in that area. That does not mean that they should be discounted but neither does it mean that their claims should be accepted on the basis of certificates.

It is typical of you Biblesuckers that you think that waving authority figures and certificates proves something. You think eroneously that is how science operates and so you try to to do the same. In fact anyone's claims are open to question and that applies to the next bod.

C34 "I might add here, that the Mt. Sinai site has now been confirmed by Dr. Manfred Biettak, Egyptologist, Professor, University of Liverpool, England."

Couldn't find him

"Dr. Ebba M. During, Archaeosteological Research Laboratory, Stockholm University, Sweden."

Couldn't find him.

"Professor Alan Millard, Ranking Professor of Hebrew & Ancient Semitic Language University of Liverpool, England."

"Alan Ralph Millard (born 1937) is Rankin Professor Emeritus of Hebrew and Ancient Semitic Languages, and Honorary Senior Fellow (Ancient Near East), at the School of Archaeology, Classics and Egyptology (SACE) in the University of Liverpool."


Scribal practices in the ancient Near East remain a dominant concern for him; the importance he ascribes to this topic stems largely from his belief as an Evangelical Christian in the essential historicity of the Bible - a point of view he shares with his colleague at Liverpool, the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen. (wiki)

"Professor Ken Kitchen, Egyptologist, Emeritus Professor, University of Liverpool, England. A noted Egyptologist..."

Kitchen is often called an evangelical scholar for his research which provides archaeological support for the Old Testament. His work on Egyptian dating was very important, but does his espousal of OT factuality tend to impair his criticality in some areas?

"Rabbi Manis Friedman, Biblical Scholar. Manis Friedman (born 1946) is a Chabad Lubavitch Hassid. He is a Torah scholar, rabbi, author, counselor and speaker and is the dean of the Bais Chana Institute of Jewish Studies."

I can imagine he'd have some input on Torak interpretation, but what archeological qualifications does he have?

Born in Prague, Czechoslovakia in 1946, Friedman immigrated with his family to the United States in 1950. He received his rabbinic ordination at the Rabbinical College of Canada in 1969. He currently hosts a cable television series, Torah Forum with Manis Friedman,

C34 "Suggesting that all of these lack the qualifications would be just another myth believed by you."

An overlook raises the question of to what extent these people really 'confirm' the Mt Sinai site? A site promoting Moller claims that they all contributed to his book.

The exodus video is actually based on Wyatt's work but, because of a dispute, no 'credit' is given to Wyatt.

The more I look at it, the more that structure with the horned god and heiroglyphs looks Egyptian work to me. The cave with the writing needs confirmation, the pillar needs confoimation as to what it is and says and in fact, everything is doubtful, unconfirmed and circumstantial.

I don't say 'not possible' but yet again, you are screaming 'Proven - anyone who says different is in denial' far too early. What you have claimed under investigation has turned out to be false or very questionable.

The rehashed Wyatt claims with a few Moller additions are alsready looking doubtful.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:38 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,956,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Moller has no qualifications in any relevant field. He is qualified in Biology, I recall but is a pure amateur in archaology.

Apart from you transparent trick of accusing anyone who does not accept your claims at face value as being in denial, you have posted the items of evidence. I note one immediately as sounding more like a piece of Egyptian work as one would expect in an Egyptian - controlled area in Biblical times.

The other stuff shows signs of selective interpretation. How many drinkable and undrinkable springs are there in that area. Could one not plan a journey in many areas using the same parameters? Are there not a number of rocks which have splits in them and I note that rather Wyatt - like claim of scorch - marks on a mountain.

I would need some confirmation of the claim of writing in that cave, too. You will see this as denial of clear evidence, but the fact is, old chum, that far too much of this stuff has been shown to be eother irrelevant (like the solomon's pillars) unsubstantiated (like the coral 'chariot wheels') or total misrepresentatin like the Ahmose stele.

You already have the conclusion -it's all tru - and just look around for anything to confirm it. I have already said that I do not in principle deny the possibility of some historical basis for the exodus but it does need some evidence.

This needs checking. Now you have posted at least something to check, I can do a bit of work - which of course, you won't do because if these claims don't stand up, you would prefer not to know.

Now, as to the pyramids, there may not be documentary evidence (In fact I think there is some) but the fact of the pyramids and their construction and development is in the archaeological record.

There is as yet nothing reliable either documentary or archaeologically in support of the Exodus.









Between the Red Granit piller marking the Red Sea crossing site, and Mt. Sinia there is only one area of bitter springs. And a short distance from the bitter springs is the small area of palm trees, and the 12 wells of drinkable water. A short distance from there you have the caves of Moses which according to those doing the work there. Confirm that writings found in those caves reveal that Moses with his Hebrews had passed by there. There is no selective interpretation going on here. These are the simple facts. You have a starting point, and an ending point. And no. One could not plan a journey in many areas and come up with the same parameters. And that is because you have a fixed starting point marked by the Red Granit piller, and a fixed ending point marked by the mountain in question. There maybe a number of rocks that have split, yet there is only (ONE ROCK) close to the mountain that is both split and shows great evidence of water erosion. And this was confirmed not only by Wyatt, but by Dr. Moller, Jim and Penny Caldwell, Bob Cornuke, and Larry Williams. And to suggest that there is nothing reliable either in documentary or archaelolgically to support the Exodus, is simply to ignore the accounts that have come from so many. Both Wyatt, Dr. Moller, and Bob Cornuke have produce films showing us the same evidence. Evidence that have been confirmed by Hershal Shanks of Biblical Archaeological Review, and numerous other Egyptologist such as Dr. Manfred Bietak, Professor of the University of Vienna, Professor Ken Kitchen, Professor at the University of Liverpoll, England. Dr. Ebba M. During, Archaeostelolgical Research Laboratory, Stockholm University, Sweden. Professor Alan Millard, Rankin Professor of Hebrew & Ancient Semitic Language University of Liverpool, England. Ect. I posted links that you could of considered. For on those links are close up pictures of some of the evidence. However, you wrote that off to a travelogue. Bob Cornuke first got interested in Mt. Sinai when it's location was given to him by Astronaut James Ervin. We are not talking about fly by nights here. And you can hear some of what Cornuke saw himself if you consider the link below. Just click on the top picture to the far left. And I would perfer to know if such claims do not stand up, and that is because my faith is built on evidence. And if such evidence is presented to me, I would not dismiss it as a travelogue.

the real mt sinai - Yahoo! Video Search

Last edited by Campbell34; 11-14-2010 at 06:51 AM..
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:13 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,956,983 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
C34 "Hershal Shanks, started the Biblical Archaeology Society."

Hershel Shanks is "probably the world's most influential amateur Biblical archaeologist," wrote New York Times book critic Richard Bernstein.[1]

In a famous legal case before the Israeli Supreme Court in 1993 Shanks and others were successfully sued by leading Dead Sea Scrolls scholar Elisha Qimron for breach of copyright when Shanks published
material written by Qimron in A Facsimile Edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls without Qimron's permission. In 2000 Shanks' appeal against the earlier decision was dismissed. (Wiki)

Amateur and a bit of a sharp operator, it seems

C34 "And Dr. Moller is equally qualified."

Lennart Moller specializes in the earth hazards of air pollutants and the damage to DNA that they cause. Since 2001, he has been a professor of environmental medicine in the department of bioscience at Karolinska Institutet, one of Europe's largest medical universities and Sweden's main center for medical training and research.

C34 "Moller along with others spent ten years of his life working that area. And in fact, there are very few archaeologist that have spent that much time in that one area of the world. Suggesting that they both lack the qualifications, simply does not square with the facts."


Shanks is an amateur and Moller is an amateur. They have dedicated themselves to proving the Bible literally true and have no qualifications in that area. That does not mean that they should be discounted but neither does it mean that their claims should be accepted on the basis of certificates.

It is typical of you Biblesuckers that you think that waving authority figures and certificates proves something. You think eroneously that is how science operates and so you try to to do the same. In fact anyone's claims are open to question and that applies to the next bod.

C34 "I might add here, that the Mt. Sinai site has now been confirmed by Dr. Manfred Biettak, Egyptologist, Professor, University of Liverpool, England."

Couldn't find him

"Dr. Ebba M. During, Archaeosteological Research Laboratory, Stockholm University, Sweden."

Couldn't find him.

"Professor Alan Millard, Ranking Professor of Hebrew & Ancient Semitic Language University of Liverpool, England."

"Alan Ralph Millard (born 1937) is Rankin Professor Emeritus of Hebrew and Ancient Semitic Languages, and Honorary Senior Fellow (Ancient Near East), at the School of Archaeology, Classics and Egyptology (SACE) in the University of Liverpool."


Scribal practices in the ancient Near East remain a dominant concern for him; the importance he ascribes to this topic stems largely from his belief as an Evangelical Christian in the essential historicity of the Bible - a point of view he shares with his colleague at Liverpool, the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen. (wiki)

"Professor Ken Kitchen, Egyptologist, Emeritus Professor, University of Liverpool, England. A noted Egyptologist..."

Kitchen is often called an evangelical scholar for his research which provides archaeological support for the Old Testament. His work on Egyptian dating was very important, but does his espousal of OT factuality tend to impair his criticality in some areas?

"Rabbi Manis Friedman, Biblical Scholar. Manis Friedman (born 1946) is a Chabad Lubavitch Hassid. He is a Torah scholar, rabbi, author, counselor and speaker and is the dean of the Bais Chana Institute of Jewish Studies."

I can imagine he'd have some input on Torak interpretation, but what archeological qualifications does he have?

Born in Prague, Czechoslovakia in 1946, Friedman immigrated with his family to the United States in 1950. He received his rabbinic ordination at the Rabbinical College of Canada in 1969. He currently hosts a cable television series, Torah Forum with Manis Friedman,

C34 "Suggesting that all of these lack the qualifications would be just another myth believed by you."

An overlook raises the question of to what extent these people really 'confirm' the Mt Sinai site? A site promoting Moller claims that they all contributed to his book.

The exodus video is actually based on Wyatt's work but, because of a dispute, no 'credit' is given to Wyatt.

The more I look at it, the more that structure with the horned god and heiroglyphs looks Egyptian work to me. The cave with the writing needs confirmation, the pillar needs confoimation as to what it is and says and in fact, everything is doubtful, unconfirmed and circumstantial.

I don't say 'not possible' but yet again, you are screaming 'Proven - anyone who says different is in denial' far too early. What you have claimed under investigation has turned out to be false or very questionable.

The rehashed Wyatt claims with a few Moller additions are alsready looking doubtful.



Seeing is believing. And since (EVERY) geographic and manmade structure matches the Biblical account. It is not hard for one having an open mind to accept the evidence. And of course the heiroglyphs look like Egyptain work to you. The Hebrews just left Egypt days before after hundreds of years of Egyptain captivity. So naturally, they should look Egyptain. Yet what would an advanced Egyptain be doing putting some crude altar together in the middle of the desert? And of course, it would of taken hundreds if not thousands of Egyptains to build such an altar. Scripture tells us it was not Egyptains who did this, it was Hebrews. And one of the carvings found on a rock near by, was the carving of a seven branch Jewish Menorah. Why would an Egyptain be carving a Jewish Menorah in the middle of the desert?
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:31 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Seeing is believing. And since (EVERY) geographic and manmade structure matches the Biblical account. It is not hard for one having an open mind to accept the evidence. And of course the heiroglyphs look like Egyptain work to you. The Hebrews just left Egypt days before after hundreds of years of Egyptain captivity. So naturally, they should look Egyptain. Yet what would an advanced Egyptain be doing putting some crude altar together in the middle of the desert? And of course, it would of taken hundreds if not thousands of Egyptains to build such an altar. Scripture tells us it was not Egyptains who did this, it was Hebrews. And one of the carvings found on a rock near by, was the carving of a seven branch Jewish Menorah. Why would an Egyptain be carving a Jewish Menorah in the middle of the desert?
You show that what you call an 'Open mind' is just a gullible one - closed to anything other than your preconcieved beliefs.

The heiroglyphs apparently look like egyptian work to you also. So you explain them as hebrews using egyptian lettering. Perhaps, but why not Egyptians using egyptian lettering? Because you are already fixated on it being done by the Hebrews.

Why wouldn't an Egyptian or buch of egyptians put up a crude altar? Not everything was made by Pharoahs. Workmen and soldiers out on garrison duty might want an altar.

If it would take hundrends or theusands of Egyptians to make this altar (really?) how much less likely that a tribe of wandering Jews would be able to do it. Before you get God to wave his wand, remember this is supposed to be a pagan altar of backsliders.

And who would carve a menorah nearby? Why a later Jews dating from when the Temple utensils were designed - considerably after the supposed Exodus, just as the Solomon pillar (if that is what it is) would have been put up later.

The comments in your other post are evidently loose. You say that no other springs, palm trees, rocks or whatever could serve, yet I know of one or two other Exodus believers who place the crossing in other places and say that Jebel Musa is the wrong location for sinai. So it isn't as clear cut as you seem to think.

I am also a bit cautious about the input from these experts until I know just what contribution they made to this book.

As in the Ark thing and the Undersea city thing and the other stuff you adduced which hasn't been pretty much discredited, I await further information. But I am not going to acept an Exodus (much less a God - given one) on the basis of your demand that I should or on the word of an amateur Bible literalist rehashing Wyatt's tripe - which is what he is doing, despite your denials. Are you going to tell me you didn't know?
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:56 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,956,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
You show that what you call an 'Open mind' is just a gullible one - closed to anything other than your preconcieved beliefs.

The heiroglyphs apparently look like egyptian work to you also. So you explain them as hebrews using egyptian lettering. Perhaps, but why not Egyptians using egyptian lettering? Because you are already fixated on it being done by the Hebrews.

Why wouldn't an Egyptian or buch of egyptians put up a crude altar? Not everything was made by Pharoahs. Workmen and soldiers out on garrison duty might want an altar.

If it would take hundrends or theusands of Egyptians to make this altar (really?) how much less likely that a tribe of wandering Jews would be able to do it. Before you get God to wave his wand, remember this is supposed to be a pagan altar of backsliders.

And who would carve a menorah nearby? Why a later Jews dating from when the Temple utensils were designed - considerably after the supposed Exodus, just as the Solomon pillar (if that is what it is) would have been put up later.

The comments in your other post are evidently loose. You say that no other springs, palm trees, rocks or whatever could serve, yet I know of one or two other Exodus believers who place the crossing in other places and say that Jebel Musa is the wrong location for sinai. So it isn't as clear cut as you seem to think.

I am also a bit cautious about the input from these experts until I know just what contribution they made to this book.

As in the Ark thing and the Undersea city thing and the other stuff you adduced which hasn't been pretty much discredited, I await further information. But I am not going to acept an Exodus (much less a God - given one) on the basis of your demand that I should or on the word of an amateur Bible literalist rehashing Wyatt's tripe - which is what he is doing, despite your denials. Are you going to tell me you didn't know?

Scripture states that six hundred thousand Hebrew men crossed over the Red Sea, so we are not speaking of some small tribe of people here. And your Egyption garrison theory does not hold water. For in numbers alone the Biblical account would over shadow such a garrison. And there is no historical evidence that the Egyptions ever built such crude altars so far from home. That's just one of your unhistorical beliefs, that lacks any kind of credible evidence. Yet Scripture tells us the Hebrews did build such an altar. And naturally you don't want to believe that. So you create your own theories based on nothing but your desire not to believe. And the real location of Mt. Sinia is confirmed by Paul in Galations 4:25 of the New Testament. For he tells us it was located (IN ARABIA). Josephus states that Mt. Snia was the highest of the mountains in the city of Madian which is just outside the town of Al Bad. Jebel el Lawz is the highest mountain in the upper two thirds of the country. Also, Philo said Mt. Sinai was located east of the Sinai Peninsula and south of Palestine. So you see, it is much more clear cut then some would have us believe. And yet, if you are going to dismiss such historical accounts. Then of course there will always be confusion in your mind. And Wyatt is just one person. You keep ignoring the fact that others actually went to the same spot and confirmed everything Wyatt told them. And don't forget we are not just speaking of (ONE ALTAR), we are speaking of two altars. The Bible tells us Moses made an altar at the base of the mountain. They found that altar at the base of the mountain and we have pictures of it. The large altar that was made by the unbelievers is also there. And we have pictures of that one as well. Just as we have pictures of the boundary markers place around the mountain. And just as we have pictures of the split rock of Horeb which is just west of the mountain showing us great evidence of heavy water erosion. The evidence is really all over the place and you would have to be a blind man to miss it. Or at least man who really does not want to believe the Biblical account. And yet it is the Biblical account we see revealed here, and not the mythical one you have created for yourself.

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm

Last edited by Campbell34; 11-14-2010 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:26 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Scripture states that six hundred thousand Hebrew men crossed over the Red Sea, so we are not speaking of some small tribe of people here. And your Egyption garrison theory does not hold water. For in numbers alone the Biblical account would over shadow such a garrison. And there is no historical evidence that the Egyptions ever built such crude altars so far from home. That's just one of your unhistorical beliefs, that lacks any kind of credible evidence. Yet Scripture tells us the Hebrews did build such an altar. And naturally you don't want to believe that. So you create your own theories based on nothing but your desire not to believe. And the real location of Mt. Sinia is confirmed by Paul in Galations 4:25 of the New Testament. For he tells us it was located (IN ARABIA). Josephus states that Mt. Snia was the highest of the mountains in the city of Madian which is just outside the town of Al Bad. Jebel el Lawz is the highest mountain in the upper two thirds of the country. Also, Philo said Mt. Sinai was located east of the Sinai Peninsula and south of Palestine. So you see, it is much more clear cut then some would have us believe. And yet, if you are going to dismiss such historical accounts. Then of course there will always be confusion in your mind. And Wyatt is just one person. You keep ignoring the fact that others actually went to the same spot and confirmed everything Wyatt told them. And don't forget we are not just speaking of (ONE ALTAR), we are speaking of two altars. The Bible tells us Moses made an altar at the base of the mountain. They found that altar at the base of the mountain and we have pictures of it. The large altar that was made by the unbelievers is also there. And we have pictures of that one as well. Just as we have pictures of the boundary markers place around the mountain. And just as we have pictures of the split rock of Horeb which is just west of the mountain showing us great evidence of heavy water erosion. The evidence is really all over the place and you would have to be a blind man to miss it. Or at least man who really does not want to believe the Biblical account. And yet it is the Biblical account we see revealed here, and not the mythical one you have created for yourself.

Mt. Sinai Found
Oddly the one thing I expected you to jump on, you didn't. You could have argued that the idea of the Menorah was given at sinai and chiselled on the rock before they left. I still tend to think that it only became a national symbol later on, so the menorah might well be later.

Now as to numbers, it is generally accepted by all other than Bible literalists that the numbers are gretly exaggerated. Further a garrison is in one spot for years and could be kept busy on bulding work whereas the Exodus theory supposes the tribe knocked up this massive construction in what, a few weeks?

I am not going to decieve you, I am just suggesting alternative possibilities because you could be right, but you are dismissing any other possibilities through Faith.

I must have a look at this temple as it could have the heiroglyphs translated and then we'd know something. also the horned god was Khons which I recall was the particular deity of the egyptian army.

It might also be a Hathoor temple. There was another one at the Timnah mines.

"And there is no historical evidence that the Egyptions ever built such crude altars so far from home. That's just one of your unhistorical beliefs, that lacks any kind of credible evidence."

Since when did you become such an archaeology expert? You make a lot of claims that there can't be any other similar structures built by egyptians or there are no other bitter springs, yet this is merely argument from ignorance. How do you know there are not?

Paul? He can't even quote scripture correctly. I'm going to accept his guesses about the location of sinai. And the speculations of Philo and Josephus about events they only had the bible record of are just guessing.

South of Palestine and east of Sinai is hardly pinpoint accuracy. As a rather high mountain that is an obvious guess.

The 'evidence' of heavy water erosion sounds loose. Obviously needs to be checked.

You will have to understand that I can't just acept your assurances that everything is just as Wyatt claimed and others went and confirmed his findings. You are well known for your inaccurate representation of information.

I don't doubt that professors Millard and Kitchen were fair in their input - they are reputable academics after all. The others look a bit suspect. The Moller book has mixed reviews - the believers gush how Academic it is and the archaologists see it as wild speculation.

I'm intrigued but I'm not going to be hustled or bullied by accusations of denial into swallowing the claims of a Wyatt - type or someone who notoriously never reports facts accurately.

Finally this thread was about documentary evidence. This is not quite the same thing. The documentary evidence does not exist, as I said at the outset.
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