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Old 07-08-2007, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
954 posts, read 811,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzedforhim View Post
Who says everything consists of one of those three things?
Can you think of anything that doesn't consist of one of those three things?
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Northern California
1,587 posts, read 3,905,821 times
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I think man doesn't fit in.

True, of the three examples given I can see categorizing man with animals but we are clearly different from animals. The main difference bring that man worships God and animals do not.

There should be a fourth category.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
954 posts, read 811,229 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzedforhim View Post
I think man doesn't fit in.

True, of the three examples given I can see categorizing man with animals but we are clearly different from animals. The main difference bring that man worships God and animals do not.

There should be a fourth category.
How about 'Homodelusional'?
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Northern California
1,587 posts, read 3,905,821 times
Reputation: 541
To to OP: I just got this email this morning from a friend going through some very difficult times. She gave me permission to post.

I want a new heart I cry out

No my child this is the one for you

But lord it is so broken I don’t even know where all the pieces are

Lord there are so many pieces they are so smashed up how can I be sure that they are all there

I will find them all my child

Will it have scars on it?

Yes my child, just like my hands and feet, it will show the scars

Why my Lord?

So you can show others the way

Can’t I show them the way without the scars

My child the scars are not for you it is so the ones who are broken can see my face

It is to show them how much I love them

The depths I will go to rescue them

The scars are not about you

It is for the world

They are lost my child

Go out and find them

Show them your scars

Show them the light

Lord you need to hold the pieces

It is so broken, so bruised

I will go, but you need to hold my heart

Lord may your light always shine in my life

Your Child

Diana
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:50 AM
 
7,099 posts, read 27,143,372 times
Reputation: 7452
For those that believe that God controls everything, that belief must include that He also created the viruses and bacteria that cause disease and other infirmities. He created a body that can break down and have cancers, cerebalpalsey, multiple sclerosis and diabetes.

Why did He do this? Is it possible that we are still in a process of evolution and in another million or two years, we will have physical perfection?
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:06 AM
 
7,991 posts, read 12,243,702 times
Reputation: 4348
Quote:
Originally Posted by l.wilson View Post
Why is it that a a loving God can allow his children to be imprisoned in a tortured painful body?
Wilson: First off, my thoughts and well wishes go out to you and those family members, as I can all too clearly relate to what you have said. Twelve years ago I can down with an illness that resulted in my being unable to walk for a number of years, during which time I experienced chronic pain. As well, it took numerous doctors to even agree on a diagnosis, as what I had was extremely rare, and most physicians had never even treated anyone with it. (After many years, I was also fortunate in that I recovered...)

I never felt that god chose to do this to me, albiet, however randomly. For me, personally, it had nothing to do with god...I did not feel that I was being punished for any sins, nor did I (in my more jovial moments) feel that I had "bad karma" as that would imply that I was somehow responsible for my unexpained illness...I don't think there is always an answer as to why "bad things happen to good people" -- Illness seems to be an "equal opportunity employer!" Clearly it is extremely emotionally taxing both for the individual who is ill, as well as those in his/her life...I honestly cannot say why such things happen, at times and in instances that are utterly unexplainable. Perhaps someday medical advances will answer some of the questions...

However, in the meantime, patience with ourselves and with those who are not always able to be patient with themselves due to such circumstances is the best I can offer...

Take gentle care....
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:06 AM
 
Location: God's Country
23,002 posts, read 34,323,501 times
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The fact like Jazz said we live in a fallen sinful world, that is part of it. Deuteronomy 29:29 "There are secret things that belong to the Lord our God, but the revealed things belong to us and our descendants forever, so that we may obey these words of the law".

Some things we will never understand. But God has told us enough to know how to handle these things when they come into our lives.

Romans 8:28 "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose for them".

I know enough that I trust the Lord to help in anything that comes into my life, I trust Him completely.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:52 AM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,532,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479 View Post
God is omniscient. When he created the universe, he saw the sufferings which humans would endure as a result of the sin of those original humans. He heard the screams of the damned. Surely he would have known that it would have been better for those humans to never have been born (in fact, the Bible says this very thing), and surely this all-compassionate deity would have foregone the creation of a universe destined to imperfection in which many of the humans were doomed to eternal suffering. A perfectly compassionate being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer is impossible.

God is perfectly just, and yet he sentences the imperfect humans he created to infinite suffering in hell for finite sins. Clearly, a limited offense does not warrant unlimited punishment. God's sentencing of the imperfect humans to an eternity in hell for a mere mortal lifetime of sin is infinitely more unjust than this punishment. The absurd injustice of this infinite punishment is even greater when we consider that the ultimate source of human imperfection is the God who created them. A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible.
You have put my life-long feelings into words flawlessly. I am a Catholic, but have been acutely cognizant of your statement, virtually word-for-word, since childhood. I have never heard an undestandable defense of this apparently inexplicable conundrum. As someone once said, "If God is ALL GOOD, He can't be all-Powerful; and if He's ALL POWERFUL, He can't be All Good", which is essentially saying what you are.
The only way I'm able to handle it is, continue to "go through the motions" trusting that somehow, there's something here I'm missing. Also, to try not to let myself slip into a "resentment" of God, despite the above scenario. I certainly am a "God-fearing" person' but find this extraordinarily hard to reconcile with the "loving Savior". It does seem, as you suggest, that He's saved us from His own plans for us. If indeed God doesn't want His creatures to suffer, who does he have to check with in order to ensure that they don't ?
Fascinating subject, extremely disturbing. Wish I didn't feel this way, and I do envy those with a more confident faith...
PS The most recent Catholic thinking (yes, apparently we CAN change) is that, in the end, God's judgement is not subject to our oversight. God can, and does, temper his rigid rules with infinite mercy; thus even the worst sinners, suicides, non-believers, etc, are somehow afforded mercy, beyond what we humans would expect, at or just before the "moment of Death". Also, the thinking is that God condemns NO ONE to hell unless he freely, with an open mind, and unequivocally, rejects God permanently. Since almost NO ONE would consciously CHOOSE to go to Hell, the thinking goes, therefore relatively few people actually end up there. Don't know what conflicts this presents with past traditions, but I sure hope there's some truth in all of these "newer interpretations"....
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,741 posts, read 8,870,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l.wilson View Post
Why is it that a a loving God can allow his children to be imprisoned in a tortured painful body? With my fathers muscle disease the only place I could touch my father was a kiss on the forhead. I will never forget the moans and groans he let out as he slept because even in sleep the pain never left. My sister has progressive M.S. which leaves her in terrible pain and not much of a quality of life. My brother-in-law (former marathon runner)was injured at work 3 years ago and has been in agony unable to leave a lounge chair in his living room. Family members tortured to death with cancer. I sometimes feel haunted by there pain. It is very difficult sometimes to fall asleep in a very comfortable, healthy body knowing that loved family members are suffering and unable to sleep. His will be done? I Just Don't Understand!
Why?...I don't know either. My guess is there is not any one single answer as to why. But, I do not believe it is God inflicting all this pain and misery, but Satan. The Bible says in John 10:10
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly"
The enemy of our souls brings sickness and pain. Here is what I would do about it: The Bible says, (in James 5:14-15)
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

If your church does not annoint with oil, then I would go find one that does. Find an elder, minister, pastor, teacher, etc who is willing to come to where your father is. Once this is accomplished, then the ball is God's court, because you have done exactly what the Bible says to do...

Bud
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:37 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,532,515 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Why?...I don't know either. My guess is there is not any one single answer as to why. But, I do not believe it is God inflicting all this pain and misery, but Satan. The Bible says in John 10:10
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly"
The enemy of our souls brings sickness and pain. Here is what I would do about it: The Bible says, (in James 5:14-15)
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

If your church does not annoint with oil, then I would go find one that does. Find an elder, minister, pastor, teacher, etc who is willing to come to where your father is. Once this is accomplished, then the ball is God's court, because you have done exactly what the Bible says to do...

Bud
Well spoken, Bud. Guess I just can't seem to grasp the concept that, if Satan is really such an ornery character, leading God's little ones astray, why doesn't God just "zap him" out of existence? I'm certainly nowhere NEAR as smart as God, but if my child were threatened by drug dealers, etc, I'd want the OUT OF THERE...
It's all hard to understand-- has to do with man's free will, etc, etc... thanks for your input
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