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View Poll Results: Is there an "appointed" time to die?
It's in our hands and just the "natural flow" of events and circumstances which occur. 4 16.00%
It's totally in God's hands. 10 40.00%
It's a little of both. Please post and explain. 6 24.00%
I don't know but I'm controlling my cholesterol and taking my vitamins to be on the safe side! 2 8.00%
Other. Any options not listed. Please post explanation. 3 12.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 12-24-2007, 11:38 AM
 
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No, I don't think that God predetermines a certain time or way for us to die..He allows us to choose how we live our lives and to make our own choices..Adam and Eve are responsible for our death, a result of sin..God did not intend for us to die when He created us.. God can and will relieve the pain of death and in some cases will hasten or delay it, but he does not predetermine it..Our lifestyle, current medical knowledge and environment give us a sense of how long out life span can be as long as tragedy such as disease or accident doesn't kill us..IMO God is saddened by the wrong choices we make in this life, but He has overcome sin and death for us through the sacrifice of Jesus...which was predetermined, IMO, before creation..
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Old 12-24-2007, 02:20 PM
 
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Yes God only have the key of death and hell.
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:55 AM
 
76 posts, read 172,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
But if God knew what decisions we would make before He created us and He creates us knowing that we will make those decisions, then I believe that He has predetermined that we make them. We would not make the decisions unless He brought us into existence.





No, not if I did not create it.



God birthed us but He sees all and knows all. A human mother cannot see all and know all. I don't believe that we have absolute free will. I do believe that we have wills, but if God sees beginning to end, then He knows exactly what will happen and He knew this when He created us. I do believe that God ultimately operates all things according to what He has purposed and that He does not act based on what we permit because He is Sovereign. I guess I don't understand why so many believe that the Sovereign God must have our permission before He does something. It is as if we have elevated our wills above God's will but according to Ephesians 1:1, God operates all according to His will. We are the creatures and He is the Creator. He is described at the Potter and we as the clay. There are too many scriptures which speak of His sovereignty over our wills and lives. For example, in the Christian scriptures, He says that one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Him. There will be no option as far as this is concerned, right? Thanks and God bless.
Shana there are those that will bow and confess out of love and there are those that will do so out of fear (the sense of a fearful awe and guilt before God) these are very different but both are ultimately acts of the will. if God was going to posses everyone and make them speak and bow it would actually be a pointless act because the people would not have meant it and these would not be real recognitions of God's authority. What God is saying here is that everyone will recognize his authority.


It dosen't matter what a human mother knows, real determination is not what goes on in your mind, it is what you do and how it impacts other things and people.


I agree that all things work ultimately to the benefit of God, but how does that negate free will? If God uses what you choose to do to his benefit, you still chose, because it was your choice that he used. Ofcourse there is a big difference between choosing the will of God and choosing something else. When you choose the will of God your will and his will are in the same place and this also predetermines the outcome "Honour thy father and thy mother that thy days may be long upon the land which the lord has given thee Exodus 20:12." "Train up a child in the way he should go and even when he is old he will not depart from it". Proverbs 22:6. Those two scriptures are examples. Now if you choose to go some other course besides the one which God has choosen you have still chosen, but the outcome may not be what you intend or want.
God sets before man the path of life and death and he chooses.
This is how the will of God and the choice of man coexists.
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Old 12-25-2007, 01:37 AM
 
Location: NC
14,655 posts, read 17,001,478 times
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Quote:
Shana there are those that will bow and confess out of love and there are those that will do so out of fear (the sense of a fearful awe and guilt before God) these are very different but both are ultimately acts of the will. if God was going to posses everyone and make them speak and bow it would actually be a pointless act because the people would not have meant it and these would not be real recognitions of God's authority. What God is saying here is that everyone will recognize his authority.

Hi Perceiver, thanks for responding. I do believe that all will recognize His authority and confess with the word confess meaning not only to acknowledge Him but to give praise to Him and glorify Him. (Romans 14:11) I do agree that everyone will acknowledge His authority but the fact that He declares this means to me that no one will have the free will to not do it. I believe that it will be done willingly but only because of the influence that God will have in convincing all so that they will all acknowledge and give praise to Him.


Quote:
It dosen't matter what a human mother knows, real determination is not what goes on in your mind, it is what you do and how it impacts other things and people.
But what I was sharing was that God sees all and knows all so I don't see how we can compare God's position with that of a human mother. They both do give birth but God already knows what will take place and the human mother does not.


Quote:
I agree that all things work ultimately to the benefit of God, but how does that negate free will? If God uses what you choose to do to his benefit, you still chose, because it was your choice that he used.
I believe that God does give us choices but that He works these choices according to what He has purposed. He works all things ultimately to His benefit, our choices included. He even knows what our choices will be before we even make them. If He knows this doesn't He then in fact determine what our choices will be by simply bringing us into existence? I also think about the twins described in Romans 9. Before they were even created God determined their roles and positions. The elder was to serve the younger. Could they have changed their situation? Someone might say that God saw the choices that they would make and this is the reason why God determined their roles. But Paul says that God determined that the elder would serve the younger in order that God's purpose according to His choice would stand.

Quote:
Ofcourse there is a big difference between choosing the will of God and choosing something else. When you choose the will of God your will and his will are in the same place and this also predetermines the outcome "Honour thy father and thy mother that thy days may be long upon the land which the lord has given thee Exodus 20:12." "Train up a child in the way he should go and even when he is old he will not depart from it". Proverbs 22:6. Those two scriptures are examples. Now if you choose to go some other course besides the one which God has choosen you have still chosen, but the outcome may not be what you intend or want.
God sets before man the path of life and death and he chooses.
This is how the will of God and the choice of man coexists.
Again I believe that God does give us choices but how can our wills be absolutely free if we are told that we need to recognize that we can only do something if God wills this as James talks about in James 4? There are limits placed on our wills because what we are able to carry out is dependent on whether or not God it is God's will for us. This is how I understand it. Also I believe that if someone is out of step with the will of God or doing the opposite, this is due to the influence of sin and satan. I believe that we are either with God or under the power of satan (who is ultimately under the power of God) So if this is the case, how can our wills be absolutely free? Do you believe that there is always a reason or cause for the choices that we make? Thanks again for sharing and God bless.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:11 AM
 
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I believe so we can not live forever speaking from this body wise so we do have a time to die.
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Syracuse
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Default Uhm....

Hebrews 9:27.

"It is appointed unto man once to die..."

That pretty much says it all.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:38 AM
 
2 posts, read 6,292 times
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Default Sriptures Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnW View Post
I get what you are saying, but I also wonder if human sin doesn't play a huge part in this.

I mean, there was no death before the fall, and people lived hundreds of years before the flood.....so things are a direct result of sin.

I also think that many deaths are because of sin in one's life and that one may die of a drug overdose or killed by a drunk driver before God's perfect timing. God does allow Satan to run to and fro and I think this is part of it.

I was not a planned pregnancy. I am not saying God didn't want me here, but I think that being born to an unwed mother who didn't keep me was God's perfect plan for my birth mother's life or for my life. BUT, He used it anyway.

Dawn


Hi Dawn!

Please support yourself with scriptures.

Fundi
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:39 AM
 
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Hi Dawn!

Please support yourself with scriptures.

Thanks, Shine
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Old 09-06-2009, 05:27 PM
 
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Default Not all that happens in our lives is god's will...

"Captain, my religious (Christian) belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me." He added, after a pause, looking me full in the face: "That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave" ~ Lt. General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson

This is an interesting question, and I agree with the post that it may be a circular argument similar to free will, like a dog chasing His tail; but that doesn't mean we shouldn't struggle through the process of the question.

First foundational question... Is God in complete "ultimate" control... YES ABSOLUTELY. However, I believe God has in ordaining free will turned choices over to man, and allowed Satan temporary dominion on earth, that another's free will and Satan's dominion can in fact impact our lives to the point where a believer, who at very least is NOT calling in prayer upon God's army for salvation, can have their life cut short by evil. John 10:10 "The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy; but I came that you might have life abundantly."

Remember, when Joshua fought the Amalekites the battle only went their way while Moses hands remained high. Therefore, didn't men of God's army, die outside the 'ultimate' will of God because Moses lowered his hands in a form of supplication to God.

So Joshua fought the Amalekites as Moses had ordered, and Moses, Aaron and Hur went to the top of the hill. As long as Moses held up his hands, the Israelites were winning, but whenever he lowered his hands, the Amalekites were winning. When Moses’ hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. Aaron and Hur held his hands up—one on one side, one on the other—so that his hands remained steady till sunset. So Joshua overcame the Amalekite army with the sword. ~ Exodus 17:10-11

Thus, not all that happens in our lives is God's will; but we do know that "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose." The prerequisite being, you "love God" which means you keep His commandments and you are "called according to His purpose" thus living within His will.

Again though, things can and do happen out of our control. Daniel had to wait weeks for the angel to arrive because he was detained in heavenly combat. Most of us prayer for about 10 minutes and are patient with God for a few hours and then give up without recognizing that our battle is not of earth but in the heavenlies against principalities and unseen forces of evil.

Example: Does God wish couples get divorced. NO absolutely not! However, I've seen more times then I can count one spouse making a decision to live outside the will of God, bailing on the marriage and the other spouse can not do a damn thing about it other than pray; but the free will of another has now impacted their life, and that of kids and family to the detriment of many.

Carried a step further in a perfect example of free will in regards to death. What about abortion. Is this a choice within God's ultimate will. Absolutely NOT! However, even someone claiming to be a Christian can in accordance with the laws of the land, choose to go against the ultimate choice of God and freely choose the death of another.

Which brings us back to the question, is God in complete control, or do we have the ability to shape His choices. Then one would have to ask, "Does God ever change his mind?"

The fact is bad things happen to good people and not all that happens in our lives is God's will!
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:17 PM
 
4 posts, read 4,771 times
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Default God Does Not Set a Time For Us To Die

Though God has the power to know when a person will die, he does not predestine the specific time. Otherwise, why would the Bible say: “The very fear of the Lord will add days, but the years themselves of the wicked ones will be cut short,” and that wicked men “will not live out half their days”? (Prov. 10:27; Ps. 55:23.) The Bible shows that our fate, to a large extent, is in our own hands.

God KNOWING (foreknowledge) and PREDETERMINING the circumstances surrounding our birth and death are two different things. I think that's where people get confused. There is nothing in the Bible that supports the ideology behind "a set time." In fact, it clearly states Satan is the one who causes death not God. (Hebrews 2:14 -Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things, that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil The first death to occur was that of Abel. We know how much God loved Abel. To say He predetermines our death is to say He had Cain kill Abel. If our lives were already predestined by God, there would be no need to preach to others or share in the evangelizing work or pray that our friends and family will accept the message, since according to this theory "saved" individuals have already been predestined, so nothing we do can change that. See, how it doesn't make sense? The ideology of predestination basically promotes the idea that God controls everything we do vs. allowing us to excercise our free will. There would be no need for free will.


Also, if all of our deaths are fixed at the time of birth or earlier, there would be no need to avoid dangerous situations or to care for our health, and safety precautions would not alter mortality rates. Why do smokers die three to four years younger, on an average, than nonsmokers? Why are there fewer fatal accidents when automobile passengers wear seat belts and when drivers obey traffic laws? If our death is predestined, why go to the doctors when we are sick? Why take our children for immunization and follow-up care? When we learn we have cancer, why take chemo or try to extend our lives? Why not just accept it is "our time to go." Everyone claims" I can't wait to get to heaven," but no one is trying to rush it. In fact, everyone with a sound mind is doing everything they can to extend their time on earth despite "God's appointed time for death."
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