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Old 11-24-2010, 02:31 AM
 
24 posts, read 21,324 times
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Khaled Yasin


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux2QhHcNwqU

[CENTER][SIZE=4]I bear witness that no god but God i bear witness THAT muhammad the god's messanger[/SIZE][/CENTER]
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 1,562,435 times
Reputation: 243
Actually, Jesus is reported to be the messiah but not God in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Acts of the Apostles.

It is only in John, written betwen 95-105 AD, that Jesus is reported to imply that he is God, but he never says so specifically.

Observe, Acts 2:22-25, Peter's speech:

22 ‘You that are Israelites, listen to what I have to say: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with deeds of power, wonders, and signs that God did through him among you, as you yourselves know— 23this man, handed over to you according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of those outside the law. 24But God raised him up, having freed him from death, because it was impossible for him to be held in its power." (NRSV)

Observe, God worked the signs through Jesus, not Jesus. Jesus was raised from the dead (like Lazarus). It isn't claimed that Jesus rose by his own power until we get to John's gospel.
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 3,340,538 times
Reputation: 1972
The deification of Jesus and the Trinity is a Roman pagan construct.
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:39 PM
 
170 posts, read 294,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
The deification of Jesus and the Trinity is a Roman pagan construct.
LOL wtf?

Ill come back tonight and post all the Bible versus where Jesus said he was God.

And the trinity...that is EASY to prove with versus.

Ill be back
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 3,340,538 times
Reputation: 1972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
LOL wtf?

Ill come back tonight and post all the Bible versus where Jesus said he was God.

And the trinity...that is EASY to prove with versus.

Ill be back
Your bible verses are meaningless in light of Church history and the historical foundations of the Trinity doctrine. Don't bother. I've read them all.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:55 PM
 
271 posts, read 179,613 times
Reputation: 35
Of course any sane man can't ask to be worshipped

Some men did. This wasn't a good idea !

79:23-26
23: And he ( Pharaoh ) gathered [his people] and called out
24: And said, "I am your most exalted lord."
25: So Allah seized him in exemplary punishment for the last and the first [transgression].
26: Indeed in that is a warning for whoever would fear [ God ].

Do you think that Jesus fears God ?!
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,932 posts, read 18,513,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
LOL wtf?

Ill come back tonight and post all the Bible versus where Jesus said he was God.

And the trinity...that is EASY to prove with versus.

Ill be back
Versus? Your bible verses only prove one thing...They are written in the bible, but that doesn't mean that they are true.

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Did Jesus exist?
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:17 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,356 posts, read 3,470,385 times
Reputation: 1698
Jesus very inconveniently elected not to write any of his own biography.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 2,889,033 times
Reputation: 1508
Notice that in the bible, it's always "Jesus said" this, "Jesus said" that. Why didn't Jesus write his own words and books?
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
 
170 posts, read 294,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Versus? Your bible verses only prove one thing...They are written in the bible, but that doesn't mean that they are true.

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Did Jesus exist?
I hope your joking...im assuming you dont even know what B.C. and A.D. mean..

No serious historian discounts that Jesus existed, alot of them of course dont believe he was God but to deny that he even existed is moronic.

Ancient historians. The Roman historian Tacitus (as well as his contemporary Suetonius) provides significant information about Jesus and his followers. Writing around A.D. 115, Tacitus notes that Christ was killed at the hand of Pontius Pilate while Tiberius was emperor; that Christ’s teachings had already spread to Rome; and that Christians were considered criminals and tortured in a variety of ways, including crucifixion (Annals 15:44). In addition, a disputed passage by the Jewish historian Josephus tells of Jesus’ virtuous conduct, his choosing of disciples, his crucifixion and death under Pilate, and the disciples’ reported appearances of the risen Jesus three days later (Antiquities 18:3). Yet another historian, Thallus, relates a very early (ca. A.D. 52) report of the crucifixion, attributing the darkness which occurred at Jesus’ death to an eclipse of the sun.
Ancient politicians and social commentators. Roman government officials such as Pliny the Younger and even two Caesars, Trajan and Hadrian, wrote intriguing letters mentioning Jesus and early Christian origins. Pliny, for example, writing about A.D. 112, describes weekly gatherings of early Christians (of all ages and social classes) who met before dawn, singing and worshipping Christ as Deity, and agreeing not to sin. Pliny, who required Christians be killed unless they denied Christ and worshiped the gods and emperor, asserts that true believers would not recant (Letters X:96).
Other Gentile evaluations of Jesus and the early church were written by Greek satirist Lucian of Samosata and a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion. Lucian wrote that Jesus taught the brotherhood of believers to deny other gods and to obey his laws. Christians, we are told, did not fear death because they were persuaded of their immortality: furthermore, they shared material possessions and frequently read from Scripture (The Death of Peregrine 11–13).
Non-Christian religious sources. The Talmud (an authoritative body of Jewish tradition), the Toledoth Jesu and several gnostic writings also offer relevant details about Jesus. One of the most interesting reports from this religious literature is the earliest reference to Jesus in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a), which states that Jesus was “hanged” (compare Galatians 3:13 and Luke 23:39) on Passover eve after the Jews were going to stone him for sorcery and for leading Israel astray. The account adds that anyone who wished to defend Jesus could have done so, but no one volunteered.
Archaeological sources. Recent digs have provided key background information. One inscription, for example, indicates that a Judean census occurred during the reign of Emperor Augustus (23 B.C. – A.D. 14), lending credibility to Luke’s story of the Roman taxation which brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem. Other relevant finds include the skeleton of Yohanan, a first century crucifixion victim, which reveals the basic technique of such capital punishment, and the Nazareth Decree, a stone which gives details of Jewish burial. Both back up details of Jesus’ crucifixion and burial mentioned in the Gospels.
In total, about one-third of these non-Christian sources date from the first century; a majority originate no later than the mid-second century. Noted historians such as Michael Grant and A. N. Sherwin-White explain that, compared to many ancient writings, these dates are quite early and close to the events themselves. Furthermore, these sources do not depend on the New Testament for their data. Numerous facts reported by Pliny, Lucian, the Talmud and others are recorded nowhere in the Gospels.
But, some might ask, “Don’t these ancient sources, unlike the New Testament, teach a non-supernatural Jesus?” Surprisingly, seven relate the belief in the deity of Jesus, and ten either state or imply his resurrection.
Post-New Testament Christian writings. Several non-New Testament Christian writings also relate details concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus. Some of these works, such as Clement of Rome’s Corinthians and Ignatius’s seven epistles, are early (A.D. 95 – 115); significantly, these writers were close to apostolic sources.
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