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Old 11-30-2010, 04:54 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 816,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52 View Post
You're wrong, clear and simple.

To assert that something exists when there is no evidence for that claim requires belief.
Or FAUX News to back it up.
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:12 AM
 
Location: London, UK
14,886 posts, read 6,695,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
There's nothing wrong with holding firmly to your beliefs, they shouldn't be so weak as to be so easily changed.
I love the rallying - cry of Charlie Brown: "Stand up for your right to be wishy -washy'.

It is far too often trumpeted that a refusal to change one's mind, stubborness and unwillingness to be reasonable is somehow admirable . "Well, at least he's got the courage of his convictions."

Pig - headedness is not admirable. a willingness to listen to information, take it on board and change one's views, if the information stacks up is admirable.

Back to you lads, you are doing well.

Oh, by the way. IQ is like a lot of other things - it isn't how much you got but how well you use it.

Last edited by AREQUIPA; 11-30-2010 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,238 posts, read 25,099,250 times
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It isn't admirable to be wishy washy, to have views so weak that they are easily changed.
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,238 posts, read 25,099,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Uh, no philosophy is philosophy and religion is religion, and contrary to your erroneous beliefs, religion does require the worship of a deity.

I act more ethically and morally than 99% of chrisitans, but the fact that I have a particular moral framework in which I operate does not equate to a religion.

Religion has a belief in an after-life, a deity, an eschatology, a set of scriptures and many other things.
It isn't only my belief, it is a fact, that there need be no deity in the establishment of a religion. Confucianism was a religion, as was Taoism. I don't know that there are any active practitioners of either in the present time, but there were major religions at one point.

As I told you, it was nothing more than an organized set of ethics.
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,238 posts, read 25,099,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Typical theist repines. Play word games when it is not going your way.
It isn't "word games". Words MEAN something, not just whatever you happen to wish them to mean at a given time. Atheism is the absolute certainty that there is no god/God. Agnosticism is for those who don't know one way or the other.
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,238 posts, read 25,099,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
No, you're mistaken. But I'll be happy to clear it up for you.

My rejection of your god-belief does not constitute a belief.

If it did, then your rejection of allah would constitute a belief in Islam.

See how that works?
I would actually contend that "Allah" and "God" are the same entity.

However, let's go with some other things.

You might choose to belief in extraterrestrial life, or not believe it. If you do either of those, then you have a belief. If you say that I have no evidence to prove extraterrestrial life, and I have no evidence to disprove extraterrestrial life, then you are saying that you do not know one way or the other, and thus do not have a belief.

Atheism is a belief, agnosticism is not.

Another good example of "not knowing": when I was in the Navy, I could neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons aboard my ship. I could not believe that they were there, and I could not disbelieve that they were there, as I had no way of knowing, one way or the other.

I also cannot confirm or deny the existence of Santa Claus, extraterrestrial life, ghosts, leprechauns, or a myriad of other things that I have no evidence for that either proves or disproves their existence.
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:58 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 816,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I would actually contend that "Allah" and "God" are the same entity.
They are...and both of their stories originated with the one Egyptians made up about Horus the sun god. In case someone might be interested that was three thousand years before the Jewish version was told. Think about it...when Horus, the son of god was born he sprang from a virgin and three kings were there. He was later crucified and became the saviour of the world when he rose from the dead.

Then...about 500AD the "Prophet" Muhammed made up his version.

Hey...it ain't over. Along about 1820 Joseph Smith, a convicted scam artist who was run out of his home town made up another lie and along came Mormonism. It ain't rocket science folks...religion is a crock plain and simple. Man created god in his image...not the other way round. The only reason it continues to thrive is one generation brainwashing it's offspring with the same BS.
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:08 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,356 posts, read 3,129,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Atheism is the absolute certainty that there is no god/God. Agnosticism is for those who don't know one way or the other.
What then is a person who believes it's very likely that there is no God, but he's not absolutely certain?
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:18 AM
 
Location: London, UK
14,886 posts, read 6,695,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
It isn't admirable to be wishy washy, to have views so weak that they are easily changed.
No, it isn't. That is ignorance and the inability or unwillingness to assess information, come to conclusions and maintain them where a conclusion is reached.

But it is also not admirable to be so stubborn and closed - minded as to refuse to consider other better arguments and cling to one's opinions despite the evidence. That is as ignorant and stupid as actually being ignorant and stupid.

It is sad when we see intelligent people behaving in that way because they have exchanged logic and knowledge for Faith.

Last edited by AREQUIPA; 11-30-2010 at 06:33 AM..
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,459 posts, read 3,743,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Atheism is a belief in the same sense that not collecting stamps is a hobby.


The belief in question is that there is absolutely no God.

At least agnosticism gives the wiggle room of "I don't know one way or the other", atheism is absolute in its belief that God does not exist.
In that sense, then, Christians are atheists, from the POV of Asatruar or Druid Reconstructionists. Whereupon the whole term loses meaning and becomes purely an exercise in quasi-etymological gymnastics..
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