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Thank you. I didn't see it all as it began a long loading half way through Berlinski's final remarks, but I'd say he had had to retract a bit from 'such matters are beyond question'.
The two points were that atheism(science) has no answers (though he later said that he rejected what answers Hawking had provided) therefore implying that 'God' was the logical default. If Hitchens didn't pick up on that he should.
Second that the great atrocity count proves nothing. It is embarrassing that Marxist regimes are atheist but true that they are dogmatic and authoritarian and it just a bit too convenient for theists to use them a reason for suggesting that atheism, or more significantly, any science which undermines theism, is to be rejected because of the dangers of atheist regimes.
Thank you. I didn't see it all as it began a long loading half way through Berlinski's final remarks, but I'd say he had had to retract a bit from 'such matters are beyond question'.
The two points were that atheism(science) has no answers (though he later said that he rejected what answers Hawking had provided) therefore implying that 'God' was the logical default. If Hitchens didn't pick up on that he should.
Second that the great atrocity count proves nothing. It is embarrassing that Marxist regimes are atheist but true that they are dogmatic and authoritarian and it just a bit too convenient for theists to use them a reason for suggesting that atheism, or more significantly, any science which undermines theism, is to be rejected because of the dangers of atheist regimes.
To me a major point is that church organizations are worse than any dictatorship. They not only have a dyed in the wool orthodoxy but have hundreds of billions of dollars to fund their endeavors. Over time the Christians have acquired more real property than any other entity except governments of the world. They have more power than the combined governments of the world...all this based upon fabrications mostly originating from ignorant, primitive mankind.
I always find is amusing when i go to the "religion" forum on various forums how militant atheists are about hating everything religious.
Why do you care that the VAST majority of people on the planet believe in God?
Personally i could care less if people worship Jesus, Allah, birds, frogs, chickens or a rock. Moderator cut: Inappropriate language do i care? thats their right...
Those darn atheists!
Always picketing and disrupting religious services. Burning down churches. Defacing crucifixes. Killing in the name of no deity.
Because people that believe in the nonsense of religion want that nonsense taught as fact in our schools, they enact laws based on their nonsense, they start wars based on their nonsense, they stage anti-(everything) protests to express their hatred and complete ignorance about anything different than their narrow and distorted view based solely on their nonsense.
I really don't care at all how many fairy tales, fantasies, and utter nonsense you believe, UNTIL you choose to force those views on anyone else, by demanding your fantasy be taught as fact in schools, you strive to enact laws based solely on your hatred of anyone different, and jeopardize the future of all civilization on this planet in the ultimate display of utter stupidity, starting wars over which god is the right one.
Treat your religion like your genitals, out of sight, unmentioned, and forced upon no one. Then as an Atheist I will have no problem at all about your beliefs.
You know, on a regular basis, in my day to day life, I don't hear one single thing about God, or religion. Only when I seek it out intentionally, like on a forum. I'd have to admit it's rare.
Another forum asked me what I considered "religious crap". Well, that would be any unsought conversation or discussion of religion, its doctrine, or dogma. Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, who feel the need to "share" their message. I have never been one to feel it was necessary to share religion with other people, unless they SPECIFICALLY sought it out. I don't believe in what has been called the Great Commission. It's not something I'd be any good at anyhow.
You know, on a regular basis, in my day to day life, I don't hear one single thing about God, or religion. Only when I seek it out intentionally, like on a forum. I'd have to admit it's rare.
So you don't hear the prayers before every football game? You don't have a Facebook account filled with your friends post celebrating their God? You don't see the words "in god we trust" printed on your money? You don't have the 10 commandments at your court house? You don't have 20 channels on your television devoted to a charlatan spreading the gospel? You don't have a prayer before every high school graduation? You don't have a bunch of people who pretend to be offended when you say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"?
Man, I could go on forever. Do you live in the U.S.? Because here, God is everywhere you turn.
I don't watch sporting events, so no. I have a Facebook account, and I log in almost every day. None of my friends even mention God. We're all pretty amazing in that we keep our religious beliefs to ourselves--at least, according to what you would have us believe. I don't really think we're that out of the ordinary.
I don't want "In God We Trust" printed on money--the government should be kept separate from religious observances. I don't even think they should make Christmas a national holdiay--people should still have to work on that day. If I were to count, I don't think I'd find 20 channels devoted to religious programming, except perhaps on Sunday mornings, and I can still find plenty of alternative programming even then.
I've only attended one high school graduation--my own--and I don't recall them giving a prayer. I don't even remember hearing them ask for a moment of silence, like they have done on the anniversaries of 9-11. And I'm opposed to a moment of silence to show reverence for dead people. Dead people don't matter. In general, living people don't matter either.
I don't say either "Happy Holidays" or "Merry Christmas". Well, I might say the latter, but that would only be appropriate on ONE day (Christmas Day) and I never see anyone on Christmas Day, because it seems as if every single place is closed that day. So instead I sit home alone and don't see anyone TO say it to.
I live in the U.S.--and the only time I hear anything about religion is when I come into a religion forum like this one. I don't hear it from other people, don't see it in the media, don't get it at work.
So you don't hear the prayers before every football game? You don't have a Facebook account filled with your friends post celebrating their God? You don't see the words "in god we trust" printed on your money? You don't have the 10 commandments at your court house? You don't have 20 channels on your television devoted to a charlatan spreading the gospel? You don't have a prayer before every high school graduation? You don't have a bunch of people who pretend to be offended when you say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"?
Man, I could go on forever. Do you live in the U.S.? Because here, God is everywhere you turn.
Yep!
Atheists are always preaching their thing from every street corner in the country, forcing it into schools, trying to take over the government and building monuments to atheism along the interstate highway system. They're bad alright. I suppose if an atheist president(perish the thought) invaded a theocratic nation, the way George W. Bush did and told that god indicated he should do, and said other atheists told him to do it we'd have hell to pay, no pun intended.
It's strange that I only hear atheists complaining that Christians "stole" Christmas from the pagans, when Christmas isn't even a religious observance these days. It's funny to me how rarely you see ME bringing up a topic in the religion forums...or in daily life.
As I have said earlier, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses seem to be the guiltiest of bringing unsolicited opinions on religion, but atheists run close behind them. If I didn't ASK you to bring up the topic of religion (in daily life), then WHY are you doing it? Just leave me alone with your anti-religion crusade, and I'll certainly leave you alone with discussion of...well, anything. I believe in keeping to myself, and I don't start up conversations with strangers. Small talk is NOT part of my repertoire.
It's strange that I only hear atheists complaining that Christians "stole" Christmas from the pagans, when Christmas isn't even a religious observance these days. It's funny to me how rarely you see ME bringing up a topic in the religion forums...or in daily life.
As I have said earlier, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses seem to be the guiltiest of bringing unsolicited opinions on religion, but atheists run close behind them. If I didn't ASK you to bring up the topic of religion (in daily life), then WHY are you doing it? Just leave me alone with your anti-religion crusade, and I'll certainly leave you alone with discussion of...well, anything. I believe in keeping to myself, and I don't start up conversations with strangers. Small talk is NOT part of my repertoire.
Sir, I can only say your experience differs greatly from mine. Maybe your part of Florida is more secular than the part of the world I now live in, in which case you are fortunate. Because here, atheist hide their beliefs, knowing that it could cost you your job if it became known. Meanwhile, Christianity is the norm and it is ubiquitous.
And it is always the Christians who are complaining about the use of "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas. In fact, the reason it popped into my mind is because there is a thread on the subject in the politics forum - and it was of course started by a Christian.
I couldn't think how to spell "proselytize"--okay, apparently THAT is the correct spelling. Anyway, I never do it. The groups I mentioned do. It's pretty simple to tell them I'm not interested in hearing about it, for the most part--except for the one I was living with.
I never brought up the topic with her, she needn't have brought it up with me. I'm not a church goer myself, and I don't care if you want to go to church or not. If you do, go; if you don't, then don't go. There is no need to bring me along if you choose to go though. And if you don't believe, you don't need to tell me all about it every five minutes.
Even with someone I live with, I don't bring up controversial topics like religion or politics. I have no desire to connect with people on that level. On an anonymous forum, I am willing to give my views on a subject, but I'm not going to change them to suit anyone else--even if no one else likes them. I've seen that happen many a time, by the way.
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Why do atheists care what people believe?
