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Most Indians don't live on reservations. I also suspect most are Christians.
I do agree with the rest of your post though. Native Americans have played the victim card pretty hard, and there is a distorted view of history regarding what really happened to them. But that is neither here nor there, and would be OT to go too deep into it.
It maybe OT, but I cannot let it go just like that without a response.
True, most NDNs don't live on rez's, especially in Oklahoma as there are no rez's as such. There is still allotment land and markers where the rez's were, but the Oklahoma rez's themselves were dissolved long ago. In other states, there are plenty of rez NDNs.
Many NDNs are Christians (both devout and nominally so). Many are traditional. Many are agnostic/atheist. Many just don't think about it at all and are ambivalent concerning these things, especially among young people. To state that MOST NDNs are anything, is a massive generalization. To make a statement of an entire ethnicity based upon what you observed in one part of Oklahoma is a huge misrepresentation. Avoid that. Even myself, as an NDN (enrolled Comanche), cannot say what all or even most natives think, believe or do. With over 500 federally recognized tribes, I am doing good to simply understand my own Nation's history and culture let alone all the other Nations in Oklahoma and certainly not the entire United States, Canada or the rest of the Western hemisphere.
As to your second paragraph, well, I agree, this is not the right place to get into all that. But the "victim card" statement ticks me off just a little. Again, on over-the-top generalized statement. Yeah some do that, but a lot of us overcame it all. For rez NDNs, especially, it is WAY more complicated than you or Mircea made it out to be.
Mircea, I would be glad to discuss your comments on another thread as this is not the place. Yeah, there is a lot of Dances With Wolves BS out there and a lot of what you said is correct, especially about warfare between different nations. That being said, there are some things being left out that are important to that discussion. If you want, we can discuss it, just not on this thread.
Lastly, to get back to the original topic, I'll repeat what I said to Mystic. Concerning the native Nativity scenes: it isn't so much a matter of recriminations against the dominant culture. It's more that, to me, the Christian Nativity story has nothing to do with us. Yes, I know there are Christian NDNs and that is fine, but for me as a traditionalist, it just sort of bugs because the implication is that Christianity is our way (or at least should be)....this I reject. That being said, it really doesn't bug me that much. A minor annoyance.
Last edited by Fullback32; 12-04-2010 at 12:59 PM..
.... And I trust the OP is cool and the redneck who ranted about the failure of the 'cowardly' to grab the festive season by the scruff of the neck and make it a billboard for jesus like they'd like to do for every other ****ing thing from the classroom to science publications is cool too.
Arequipa, that "Yup" was a personal statement of "okay-ness" from me to MysticPhD. It means that, though I strongly disagree with his position for very many reasons, I accept and respect his right to have and express it, and that the only requirement I place on him is a similar acceptance and respect of me and mine.
I'm concerned that you attempted to broadly apply something that took place in a one-to-one discussion to which you were not a party. But that's just me, of course.
Concerning the native Nativity scenes: it isn't so much a matter of recriminations against the dominant culture. It's more that, to me, the Christian Nativity story has nothing to do with us. Yes, I know there are Christian NDNs and that is fine, but for me as a traditionalist, it just sort of bugs because the implication is that Christianity is our way (or at least should be)....this I reject. That being said, it really doesn't bug me that much. A minor annoyance.
I am NDN, and I follow the teachings of Christ as I understand them. With that said, I feel much the same way as Fullback. The most diplomatic single-word descriptor that can be applied to such a display, IMO, is "presumptuous". There are quite a number of far more accurate, but much less diplomatic, descriptors. Due to the spirit of the Season (and the Moderators, of course ), they have no place here.
Wishing the Season's Best to all here, and to their families and friends and loved ones,
Much has been said and decried about the "politically correct" greeting and wish -- Happy Holidays. Much anger has been aimed in its direction, and many, ah, uncomplimentary things have been said about people who prefer it. Most of these comments have talked about returning to "traditions."
Well, here's a 60-year-plus tradition for you:
From my earliest memories onward (approximately 1949), there has been another, equally inclusive greeting. So far it has completely escaped being the target of all this vitriol. In fact, if you look back over my posts, you'll see that I use a variant of that greeting. So far no one has objected.
Arequipa, that "Yup" was a personal statement of "okay-ness" from me to MysticPhD. It means that, though I strongly disagree with his position for very many reasons, I accept and respect his right to have and express it, and that the only requirement I place on him is a similar acceptance and respect of me and mine.
After due consideration of your posts, Nighteyes . . . I am certain we are not as far apart as you currently believe. That you can acknowledge Christ and "love God and each other" . . . places you in my camp . . . there are no other mandates. I view the greeting, displays, etc. folderol as politically correct rabble rousing, period. I do not believe there should be any "right" to protection from exposure to ANY form of expression that is not illegal. Season's Greetings to you and yours, Nighteyes.
After due consideration of your posts, Nighteyes . . . I am certain we are not as far apart as you currently believe.
Noticed that, did you? I just tend to be more all-inclusive and accepting of other religions and traditions than your posts seem (to me) to describe you as being.
However, I also get the feeling that your objections may come from a specific, deeply personal, and possibly traumatic experience that you have not as yet shared with us.
Or I could, as is sometimes the case, be way-the-heck out in the middle of nowhere on this.
-- Nighteyes
Last edited by Nighteyes; 12-06-2010 at 05:10 PM..
Do you feel that God is honored by having plastic Jesus figures set about in WalMart? I'm not sure how that is honoring him at all.
I doubt that if Jesus came walking through town today he'd be offended that the shelves are not adorned with tacky figures of himself.
Well spoken, m'lady!
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