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B - Your videos don't address the question of how morality can be anything but self interest in a post-theist world
Morality is a construct of a cohesive society, not just self interest, but the interest of the community as a whole, and to put it simply is based on the golden rule, and the videos did address this.
If you want great examples of immorality read your bible. It is rife with it, including genocide, human sacrifice, slavery, and murder.
IMO, all morality is based on the so-called Golden Rule (Do unto others..."), which was NOT original in Judaism or Christianity. The concept of relative freedom is also helpful.
It exists within the freewill of the beholder. That's why the moral code of some folks lands them in jail while the moral code of others lands them a promotion.
This is where you are a bit confused. Morality IS, WAS, and always will be held by the individual. We have free will. We can be anything that we want to be. No "God" is gonna stop the rapist, bank robber, or pedophile from being what they are (even if that pedophile is a "man of the cloth"). On the other hand, no "God" can take credit for someone going out of their way to help their fellow man either.Your question is moot because morality is within the beholder.
So if morality is in the beholder, then nothing is right or wrong, just a matter of point of view? That seems to me not to be morality
Last edited by Mattos_12; 11-29-2010 at 01:34 AM..
How is your morality not based on self-interest, when you believe you will burn in hell for eternity if you don't follow it?
Many atheist pick a moral philosophy that resonates with them and follow it simply because they think its the right thing to do. Pretty much the same way you picked Christainity, (except you didn't really pick Christianity, you were just born around a lot of people who happened to be Christians.)
I don't wish to defend Christian/religious views or morality. I just want to consider what morality is without God.
There are plenty of moral codes that aren't God dependent.
Desire Utilitarianism is a good example, but it's a little too complicated for me to write out for you here. You'll just have to google it.
But even if one did believe in God, it doesn't necessarily follow that following his commandments would be the moral thing to do. You have arbitrarily decided to define morality as "doing that which God commands". Others have arbitrarily decided to define morality as "that which brings the most good to the most people" (simply utilitarianism). But your choice is no more rational than most of the others.
Utilitarianism seems to be to be defined as different from morality as general conceived.
It seems to me that morality is considered to be a transcendental moral code, the only way I can see such a code is via God. Rationality can explain a code of self interest, and utilitarianism a code of group interest, but that seems to me to be separate from morality .
Morality is the view determined by one person's perception of the intention of an act of another person. An act can not be considered moral or not by the person making it. A specific view of a group behavior is called an ethical standard. One can look at one's behavior and see if it matches that of a majority of the group for validation I guess... But, codifiation of mores, religion, law, etc. is what the OP is really looking for I think - OR, he's simply looking for external validation of his views.
What you experience in America today is morality in spite of God, so you don't have far to look...A post theist world would not be essentially different, except there would be equal rights for all, and in my opinion it would be morally better.
I'm not attributing morality to anything/one, I'm asking. The question perhaps is then, without God where does morality come from, and where does it the logic lead?
It seems to be that, if morality is self interest, then if I can steal (and benefit from it) then I should, if I can kill then(ditto) I should, if I could rape, then I should. Surly that this is the logic of self interest?
If there is no transcendental morality, then how can there be anything more than self interest?
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