U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-04-2010, 03:29 PM
 
1,116 posts, read 983,889 times
Reputation: 414

Advertisements

They both agree that christians practice idolatry by worshiping jesus as co-equal with the ONE true god.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-05-2010, 12:56 AM
 
103 posts, read 182,701 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
They both agree that christians practice idolatry by worshiping jesus as co-equal with the ONE true god.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2010, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
48 posts, read 53,189 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
It was just a question. Why do you have to be insulting? Some folks are atheists some not. Why can't both just agree to disagree and leave the comments at home?
Maybe Atheists don't want other peoples beliefs in their face all the time
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2010, 05:10 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,110,501 times
Reputation: 6655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranctum View Post
Maybe Atheists don't want other peoples beliefs in their face all the time
If you're at something called "Religion and Philosophy" you're pretty much opening yourself to being exposed to religions and philosophies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2010, 06:34 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,270,543 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranctum View Post
Maybe Atheists don't want other peoples beliefs in their face all the time
Then why come to the religion and philosophy forum?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2010, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
27,785 posts, read 43,123,177 times
Reputation: 17966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
If you're at something called "Religion and Philosophy" you're pretty much opening yourself to being exposed to religions and philosophies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Then why come to the religion and philosophy forum?
LOL... true dat! I wouldn't go to the Pet forum, and then whine "why do you guys keep talking about animals? I hate animals, and wish you wouldn't push them in my face!" Common sense, really.

For the record, I'm actually more Atheistic in my beliefs - so I certainly don't like pushy religious folks either, regardless of their specific faith. But as I was raised in a Jewish (pretty lax) household, I can see things from both sides of the argument... and certainly know more about Judaism than your average hardcore (usually ex-Christian or Catholic) Atheist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,582 posts, read 10,232,338 times
Reputation: 2327
A few quibbles

"Its just one is ethno-centric while the other is sectarian."

I guess you could say that. In english we would say Islam is a universalist religion, while Judaism is not.


" Both have oral traditions to abrogate their scriptures."

Interprate, or elucidate. Not abrogate. Interesting parallels AND differences on this - the Mishna records the practices of the people (sometimes with not merely testimony, but interpretation by the Rabbis) while the Hadith records specifically the practices of Mohammed.

"Judaism is a function of the Pharisees while Islam is a function of the pagans of Mecca."

I am not sure what you mean by that. The Pharisees were a political grouping in late hasmonean times and under Herod. The first basic interpretative text of Judaism, the mishnah was written 200 years later. There SEEM to be continuities between the Pharisees and the Tanaim (the authors of the Mishnah) but they arent the same - and of course there are almost certainly continuities from the Pharisees going back to the late prophets.

"The Pharisees were cursed in the Gospel while the pagans of Mecca were cursed in the Koran."

yes, but whats in the gospel isnt part of Judaism.

" The Judaism followed by most Jews is radically different than the Judaism of Moses or David."

We of course do not know what the Judaism of Moses or David was. Traditional Jewish views hold that many of the core ideas and practices of the Mishnah DO go back to Moses. Modern views, which accept biblical criticism, accept that we know little about either, and they may have been radically different from what the bible tells us.

" In fact the term Judaism was never used during the times of the prophets."

The term Judaism is a late (i think 19th cent) term. Traditionally we refer to Am Israel (the people Israel) Torah ISrael (the Torah of Israel) and Emunah Israel (the faith of Israel) And of course, Eretz Israel (The land of Israel)

"Islam simply followed suit." I am quite sure the term "Islam", if not used by Mohammed, was used much earlier than the 19th c.


" Maybe its a semitic thing." A slight contradiction to Islam being "non ethnic" eh?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2010, 03:06 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,582 posts, read 10,232,338 times
Reputation: 2327
"Thats what you call Judeo-Islamic. There is nothing called Judeo-Christian."

Judaism and Islam share, most importantly, a focus on an all encompassing way of life including ethical and ritual actions, expressed in a body of law (halacha/sharia) each body of law based on traditions of legal interpretation rooted in early texts (mishnah-talmud/Hadith) which serve to clarify the founding holy text (hebrewbible/QUran). Those are dramatic similarities.

Judaism and Christianity share the Hebrew Bible, which is also a holy text of Christianity. As a result they share many stories, ethical principles, and in a few cases aspects of ritual, etc.

Some things (for example mysticism based on prevailing neo-Platonist ideas, rationalism based on Aristotle) all three share, that passed back and forth between the faith traditions.

In the 19th c, reform jews, who lived in an environment where emphasizing commonalities with Christianity was advantageous, and who generally were not interested in jewish religious law or in post biblical texts, naturally tended to focus on a "judeo-christian" heritage. Today, jews who have returned to, or never left, Jewish law, and who want to reach out to Islam in peace, emphasize a Judeo-Islamic heritage.

Both are true, and both are incomplete.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2010, 03:29 PM
 
9,341 posts, read 24,545,940 times
Reputation: 4449
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
Judaism and Christianity share the Hebrew Bible, which is also a holy text of Christianity.
There are the many differences between the Christian version of the Jewish Bible and the Jewish version of the Jewish Bible:

According to Rabbi Marc Gellman of G-d Squad fame, "One of the most important things to understand when quoting the Bible (the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Testament) is that it was not written in English. This means you're not only reading a translation from Hebrew or Greek, but you're also often reading an interpretation masquerading as a translation."

As an example of this "interpretation masquerading as a translation", further quoting Rabbi Gellman, "The Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (and the text used by Jerome to translate the Bible into Latin in the 4th century), famously translates the Hebrew verse 'and behold a young woman shall give birth' as, 'and behold a virgin shall give birth.' The Hebrew word for virgin is betula, but the word used in Isaiah 7 is alma, which just means a young woman. Obviously, if there was a verse in the Hebrew Bible predicting that a virgin would give birth, this would indeed be a stunning prediction and proof text of Jesus' virgin birth. Unfortunately, for Christians who want this to be the verse, it is not the verse."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
27,785 posts, read 43,123,177 times
Reputation: 17966
Ironically, I just randomly stumbled across an article on the 1099 Siege of Jerusalem - I was actually looking for info on the tax 1099s, LOL. One blurb made me think of this discussion, and how the Jews & Muslims were earlier accused of having a "violent history." Why, then, are there so many stories like THIS:

"Although the Crusaders killed many of the Muslim and Jewish residents, eyewitness accounts (Gesta Francorum, Raymond of Aguilers, and the Cairo Geniza documents) demonstrate that some Muslim and Jewish residents were allowed to live, as long as they left Jerusalem..... The chronicle of Ibn al-Qalanisi states the Jewish defenders sought refuge in their synagogue, but the "Franks burned it over their heads", killing everyone inside. One account alleges that the Crusaders circled the flaming building while singing "Christ, We Adore Thee!, Thee are our light, our direction, our love"."

This is an example of true Christian peace & love, I suppose? Obviously I understand all religions have violence in their histories, but anyone who knows anything about history realizes the Jews (and historically the Muslims) are typically on the receiving end... Spanish Inquisition, Holocaust, Crusades, Russian Pogroms, etc. That's the whole reason my ancestors got the HECK out of Russia, as they were tired of being persecuted and murdered for their beliefs. That would get old after a while, don't you think?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:58 PM.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top