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It's symbolic and Sacramental. In my denomination, a child is baptized by pouring. The parents and godparents promise to raise this child as a Christian. The congregation that is witnessing the service also agrees to watch after this child until he/she is old enough to understand and take on his/her own development even if all the parents and godparent neglect this task. It is considered a sacrament in that it provides a means through which a person can receive God's Grace.
When the child is old enough, he/she studies the Church and it's teachings and then accepts and is confirmed as a member in full standing in the congregation. We do not teach that this baptism SAVES, it is merely a vehicle by which the child is brought into full fellowship with the other members. Here again, Our denomination says a Christian is one who tries to follow the teachings of the Bible.
If a person REFUSES to be baptised or confirmed, there would be serious doubt if he/she understood what the Church stood for.
But where does confessing Jesus as Lord come into this?
Arguy, I just tried to Google illegal baptism, but all I got were baptisms taking place in countries where Christianity is illegal.
Alrighty then kay---what happens to that poor soul who confessed but didn't get dunked in time? Defend yourself!
I have to agree with ALL of you! Baptism doesn't save you, and it isn't an absolute requirement to get to heaven. It's a thing you do out of obediance, an outward sign of obediance, providing you are able to do so. If you are on your deathbed, and accept Christ 2 minutes before you die, do you think God expects you to have been baptised? I doubt it. And, what if a quadraplegic gets saved, (or someone with a critical medical condition that would be aggravated by immersion)....are you going to demand that he/she get baptised? I sure woudn't demand it, but if the person requested it I would get a couple strong guys to assist to carry it out.
I have heard of people to argue over small details of exactly how to be baptised, and not just full immersion vs sprinkling. Some say if must be exactly in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Others say it must be exactly in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Others say only an ordained minister can do it, only a certain denomination can do it, etc, etc. So, who is right? I wasn't sure, so I got it done twice,....AND....I was sprinkled as a baby....
I was reading thru a local southern Baptist bi-monthly paper-kinda like a newspaper, and in the middle was a segment on Baptism. Well one pastor, I went to HS with him, which is why i was reading it) made a comment that there were too many "illegal" baptisms...I thought in my own mind that he meant, ones that werent done in the church that led to membership, or by ordained clergy. Idk for sure, never saw that term before.
OK. I'll tell you a story that happened at my church.
Had a couple of youth that started coming to our youth group who were members of another church, supposedly were Christians.
Anyway, I'll shrink this way down for you guys and not get into all the details, but basically they got saved, accepted Christ, trusted Jesus, whatever you want to call it, they are now Heaven bound. Anyway, my pastor refused to baptize them unless they joined the church. Won't go any farther now, but I called him on it and he really didn't have a response. I told him that I was going to baptize them(one of them anyway, the other one joined) and he didn't say anything except that he thought that would be fine.
This issue almost led me to leave our church. Still not sure I shouldn't have.
But where does confessing Jesus as Lord come into this?
Arguy, I just tried to Google illegal baptism, but all I got were baptisms taking place in countries where Christianity is illegal.
Alrighty then kay---what happens to that poor soul who confessed but didn't get dunked in time? Defend yourself!
Well, okay. The scripture does say, "and baptized." Notice the and part.
Disclaimer: kaykay doesn't really believe baptism is essential to salvation. We're just role playing today in order to sharpen arguing skills for future heated legit debates!
OK. I'll tell you a story that happened at my church.
Had a couple of youth that started coming to our youth group who were members of another church, supposedly were Christians.
Anyway, I'll shrink this way down for you guys and not get into all the details, but basically they got saved, accepted Christ, trusted Jesus, whatever you want to call it, they are now Heaven bound. Anyway, my pastor refused to baptize them unless they joined the church. Won't go any farther now, but I called him on it and he really didn't have a response. I told him that I was going to baptize them(one of them anyway, the other one joined) and he didn't say anything except that he thought that would be fine.
This issue almost led me to leave our church. Still not sure I shouldn't have.
Hmmm..... Well, my church doesn't even have "formal membership." So I guess we won't be having any of those kind of issues.
OK. I'll tell you a story that happened at my church.
Had a couple of youth that started coming to our youth group who were members of another church, supposedly were Christians.
Anyway, I'll shrink this way down for you guys and not get into all the details, but basically they got saved, accepted Christ, trusted Jesus, whatever you want to call it, they are now Heaven bound. Anyway, my pastor refused to baptize them unless they joined the church. Won't go any farther now, but I called him on it and he really didn't have a response. I told him that I was going to baptize them(one of them anyway, the other one joined) and he didn't say anything except that he thought that would be fine.
This issue almost led me to leave our church. Still not sure I shouldn't have.
I can relate to this Alpha, maybe thats what the guy was talking about. Thanks. I think you handled the situation well. At the church we attend now, baptism and joining have nothing to do with each other, if u accept Christ, you can be baptised anywhere anytime, with no obligation to our church, just to God.
Let's pretend for a moment. Suppose you were talking to someone that was completly ignorant of the Christian way. How would you define "Confess Jesus as Lord?"
Would trying to follow his teachings be enough? Why not?
Here again, we are trying to tie God's hands as to who is and who isn't. I don't think that we should do that.
I suspect that when we look at that line outside the Pearly Gates, there will be a lot who have been crossing their fingers about a lot of things.
Well, okay. The scripture does say, "and baptized." Notice the and part.
Disclaimer: kaykay doesn't really believe baptism is essential to salvation. We're just role playing today in order to sharpen arguing skills for future heated legit debates!
But kay, we can't be legalistic about things. The 2nd half only talks about a negative consequence if they don't believe, not if they don't get baptized.
(It just doesn't feel the same kay! Need you and I to put on our boxing gloves!)
And Alpha, that would have left a very bad taste in my mouth, to use the expression. How petty!
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