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Sir, I know you are hinting at the "fig tree" prophecy mention in Matthew 24, but as Nightfligt pointed out, Jesus WAS talking to the audience before him referring to them as this generation. Right after he mentions this to them, he tells them that when they see the fig tree blossoming, they are to be aware that the end is near even at their very doors.
Also, I have yet to see a response to Matthew 10:23. I've posted it on this site about 6 times already, over nearly 2 years in these type threads and it is not lost on me that it is ALWAYS ignored should I say, for OBVIOUS reasons?
Often, when Jesus was speaking to His disciples, He was not just speaking to them. For Christ knew His words would be repeated till the end of days.
And He was adressing all who would follow Him. Matthew 10:23 was one of those verses. Jesus knew even then, that most of His disciples would be killed off way before the time of the end. And you can see this in Matthew chapter 24. Hear Jesus was speaking to His disciples. Yet, He tells them in verse 9 of that chapter. "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and (KILL YOU), and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake." Now verse 9 shows us they were to be killed, yet even after that statement, Jesus tells them in verse 14. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Well, if His disciples were killed off in verse 9, how would it be possible for the Gospel to be preached in all the world? And why would it even be necessary if one believed that Christs return would take place before His disciples died, or were killed? The only conclusion one could come to, is that the Gospel would continue to be preached after both Jesus, and His disciples were gone. Now we could stop right there, yet we also need to consider the prophecies that must occur before Christ second coming. None of the main prophecies that needed to be fulfilled before Christ could return, were fulfilled 2000 years ago. And only in our present day, do we see this fulfillment. Now the Old Testament clearly tells us, that in the (Last Days), we would see the nation of Israel reborn. And only in that time, would the return of Christ be possible.
Can any of you people that are expecting the return of your man-god PLEASE show me where, just where in the Torah is says that the prophesied 'Messiah' will come, be killed and then return at a later date? It 'aint there people. This 'second coming' is a purely Christian invention to excuse the problems of this Jesus chappie not fulfilling the Torah prophecies of 'The Messiah'.
Heck folks! The Jews don't believe JC was their prophesied Messiah. They should know, it was THEIR prophecy after all. According to the Torah, the messiah will come and fulfill all things there and then not do half of them, get killed and then come back for a second go.
Often, when Jesus was speaking to His disciples, He was not just speaking to them. For Christ knew His words would be repeated till the end of days.
And He was adressing all who would follow Him. Matthew 10:23 was one of those verses. Jesus knew even then, that most of His disciples would be killed off way before the time of the end. And you can see this in Matthew chapter 24. Hear Jesus was speaking to His disciples. Yet, He tells them in verse 9 of that chapter. "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and (KILL YOU), and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake." Now verse 9 shows us they were to be killed, yet even after that statement, Jesus tells them in verse 14. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
'...all the world' in that day and age meant a fraction of the world we know today. I forgot the term when "all" is used to mean something other than "all" but I am quite sure the writer putting these words in Jesus' mouth was sure not thinking about the Aleutian Islands, for example.
Quote:
Well, if His disciples were killed off in verse 9, how would it be possible for the Gospel to be preached in all the world? And why would it even be necessary if one believed that Christs return would take place before His disciples died, or were killed? The only conclusion one could come to, is that the Gospel would continue to be preached after both Jesus, and His disciples were gone. Now we could stop right there, yet we also need to consider the prophecies that must occur before Christ second coming. None of the main prophecies that needed to be fulfilled before Christ could return, were fulfilled 2000 years ago. And only in our present day, do we see this fulfillment. Now the Old Testament clearly tells us, that in the (Last Days), we would see the nation of Israel reborn. And only in that time, would the return of Christ be possible.
See above and it is all to convenient to say, well he was not ONLY speaking to his Disciples before him. He was speaking to every single Christian since that time to now. Why? Because he did not and has not come back yet!
Unless you are just being stubborn, you should know that the "last days" to the OT prophets were just around the corner just like the "last days" for the New Testament characters were just around the corner just like the "last days" in 1000 AD was just around the corner just like the "last days" in the 1800s was just around the corner just like the "last days" 40 years ago was just around the corner just like the "last days" today are just around the corner just like the "last days" 200 years from now will be just around the corner. Notice a pattern here?
Further back you mentioned Ezekiel 37, 38 and 39 as speaking of our modern times. Do you care to tell me what horses, bows and arrows, shields and swords (Ezekiel 39:9) are doing in a prophecy meant for modern times when guns, bombs, war jets and missiles are the standard in modern warfare? I take it that modern man will be regressing back to the 5th century B.C to fight wars in these modern times?
You'll find that nearly every one of the atheists and agnostics on these boards have fully explored religion and found that it is hollow, lacking in substance, and very definitely wanting.
Atheists didn't "get tired" of believing. Most of us either never believed because it was just too irrational, or woke up one day and realized that it was all a crock and made no sense whatsoever to continue trying to believe in a fairy tale.
very few atheists on the board mostly angry ex christians who cant get a rubber stamp on their new lifestyle from the old church. true atheists are at peace and are good thinkers dont do a lota hate posts.
very few atheists on the board mostly angry ex christians who cant get a rubber stamp on their new lifestyle from the old church. true atheists are at peace and are good thinkers dont do a lota hate posts.
What, pray tell, what is a 'hate post?' Would those questioning religion be considered 'hate posts' also? I just want to know because I do a lot of those and I just want to know if I'm hating or not because I don't like hating people. Not my style at all.
very few atheists on the board mostly angry ex christians who cant get a rubber stamp on their new lifestyle from the old church. true atheists are at peace and are good thinkers dont do a lota hate posts.
An atheist is simply one who lacks belief in god(s). Nothing more. Nothing less.
Can any of you people that are expecting the return of your man-god PLEASE show me where, just where in the Torah is says that the prophesied 'Messiah' will come, be killed and then return at a later date? It 'aint there people. This 'second coming' is a purely Christian invention to excuse the problems of this Jesus chappie not fulfilling the Torah prophecies of 'The Messiah'.
Heck folks! The Jews don't believe JC was their prophesied Messiah. They should know, it was THEIR prophecy after all. According to the Torah, the messiah will come and fulfill all things there and then not do half of them, get killed and then come back for a second go.
Well, I'm glad you have such a high opinion of the Jewish people. Yet it's pretty obvious, the God of the Bible does not share your view.
Ezekiel 36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their land, they defiled it by their conduct and deeds. (IN MY SIGHT) their conduct was like the defilement of a menstruous woman.
Ezekiel 36:19 I scattered them among the nations, dispersing them over foreign lands; according to their conduct and deeds (I JUDGED THEM.)
It's pretty obvious, the Jewish people should of known, yet they did not. And it tells you that much, in their own Old Testament. In the link below, it shows us about 65 prophecies Jesus fulfilled, which were first stated in the Old Testament. The reality is, Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies found in the Old Testament. And He was the only one to do so. And there was only a very narrow window of time, for all these prophecies to be fulfilled.
Well, I'm glad you have such a high opinion of the Jewish people. Yet it's pretty obvious, the God of the Bible does not share your view.
Ezekiel 36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their land, they defiled it by their conduct and deeds. (IN MY SIGHT) their conduct was like the defilement of a menstruous woman.
Ezekiel 36:19 I scattered them among the nations, dispersing them over foreign lands; according to their conduct and deeds (I JUDGED THEM.)
It's pretty obvious, the Jewish people should of known, yet they did not. And it tells you that much, in their own Old Testament. In the link below, it shows us about 65 prophecies Jesus fulfilled, which were first stated in the Old Testament. The reality is, Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies found in the Old Testament. And He was the only one to do so. And there was only a very narrow window of time, for all these prophecies to be fulfilled.
'...all the world' in that day and age meant a fraction of the world we know today. I forgot the term when "all" is used to mean something other than "all" but I am quite sure the writer putting these words in Jesus' mouth was sure not thinking about the Aleutian Islands, for example.
See above and it is all to convenient to say, well he was not ONLY speaking to his Disciples before him. He was speaking to every single Christian since that time to now. Why? Because he did not and has not come back yet!
Unless you are just being stubborn, you should know that the "last days" to the OT prophets were just around the corner just like the "last days" for the New Testament characters were just around the corner just like the "last days" in 1000 AD was just around the corner just like the "last days" in the 1800s was just around the corner just like the "last days" 40 years ago was just around the corner just like the "last days" today are just around the corner just like the "last days" 200 years from now will be just around the corner. Notice a pattern here?
Further back you mentioned Ezekiel 37, 38 and 39 as speaking of our modern times. Do you care to tell me what horses, bows and arrows, shields and swords (Ezekiel 39:9) are doing in a prophecy meant for modern times when guns, bombs, war jets and missiles are the standard in modern warfare? I take it that modern man will be regressing back to the 5th century B.C to fight wars in these modern times?
Well, to suggest that Jesus was only speaking of the known world, is pretty much a departure from what Jesus actually stated. Matthew 24:14 clearly has Jesus telling us. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached (IN ALL THE WORLD) as a witness (TO ALL THE NATIONS), and then the end will come.
Did you notice how Jesus said, (ALL THE NATIONS), and not just the nations we know about. The writer did not put any words in Jesus mouth.
And in fact, by you suggesting that Jesus was only speaking of the known world. Well, it would be you, who would be more guilty of changing the words of Jesus.
Now, it may be true that some of the people of the Bible believed that Christ would come back in their time. Yet, they could never base that belief on the prophecies of the Bible. From the return of the Jews to Israel, to the sealed East gate of Jerusalem, to the 200 million man army. None of these prophecies were fulfilled back then. So such a belief was not based on the facts of the Scriptures.
It should be obvious, that the visions given to the prophets of old, were often given in a context they could understand. They would have no idea how to explain modern weapons. So God gave them visions they could explain. However, with that being said. Sometimes future events had to be given in a way that no historical context could explain. And that is why the Bible so clearly reveals to some of those prophets, the details of a future nuclear attack, on a great endtime nation.
Last edited by Campbell34; 11-10-2009 at 02:29 AM..
Prophesies made in the OT are fulfilled in the NT....How credible is that?
Well, they are very credible, because many of those OT prophecies, are being fulfilled in the day we live. So you can't blame the reality of their fulfillment, on the writers of the New Testament.
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