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I believe you're making the mistake of thinking my mind works the same as yours does.
I, and many others, believe in certain things because that's where the facts and evidence takes me/us. We don't decide out of the blue "X is true" one day, then close our minds to any other possibles forever.
Since evolution is the topic here, I'll make this example: If some amazing discovery was made, say, 20 years from now that proved evolution wrong, I'd change my mind on it. The thing is it would have to be based on facts and evidence, not faith. It wouldn't be a big deal to me, nor make a bit of difference in my life one way or the other.
Of course, there is a reason why evolution has stood up to nearly 150 years or scrutiny. You may want to think of why that is, minus any nutball conspiracy theories.
Shalom......you start by saying "I believe" indicating some measure of "faith" you have in our thought process...regardless of the error you assume on our behalf. Then you assume the first place stating "I and many others believe" indicating some measure of "faith" in certain things. Then you contradict your statements of faith by stating that the basis of evolution "not being true" must be proven with "facts" and "evidence"...not faith. If you're in for a penny you're in for a pound......either you "believe" in evolution or you don't. The Blessings of The Eternal One help you decide...
Shalom......you start by saying "I believe" indicating some measure of "faith" you have in our thought process...regardless of the error you assume on our behalf. Then you assume the first place stating "I and many others believe" indicating some measure of "faith" in certain things. Then you contradict your statements of faith by stating that the basis of evolution "not being true" must be proven with "facts" and "evidence"...not faith. If you're in for a penny you're in for a pound......either you "believe" in evolution or you don't. The Blessings of The Eternal One help you decide...
Cut the crap, littlewitness. I've already explained to you in a previous thread how you like to contort words to suit your worldview. Apparently you've forgotten that many times in a dictionary a word can or will have more than one meaning which is often dictated by the context of its usage.
The whole contextual argument which you choose to bring up about the word "believe" does not coincide with how you justify using the word "faith." The word "believe" alone has a variety of different uses - not all of which require this pathetic idea of "faith" to be synonymously interchanged. A few examples:
"I can't believe half of the preachers in the Southern Baptist Community secretly have homosexual desires!"
In the above case, the narrator is expressing astonishment and the word "believe" is used as a transitive to help identify with the exclamatory notion.
Pretty much everyone believes the Catholic Church is really nothing more than a giant child prostitution ring.
In this case, we have a pretty popular sentiment that is backed by a rather large amount of evidence. Though the official function of the Church is to get as much money as possi... I mean... Get people "closer to God," the only thing it's done recently is get young boys closer to penises. However, there is a certain amount of exaggeration implied in the sentence with the terminology "Pretty much everyone" can be such an all-inclusive statement. Therefore, the word "believe" should be taken in the lesser form as meaning "most people have the general assumption." In many cases, the word "believe" is used in this way. But, that's not the only way it can be used in the English language.
I love this next one because I found it straight out of the dictionary:
There are those on the fringes of the Church who do not really believe.
In this case, it's used as an intransitive linking verb describing those on the fringes of the Church and their general association. Since it's not a main embodiment of the sentence structure, comes at the end, and does not "take something" it is considered intransitive. It is in this case which the word "believe" becomes a little more finite and non-discretionary. It also makes the statement less about "faith" and more about the general consensus of a group of people.
I know it's one of the religions' and especially Creationists' favorite pastimes but contorting the English language to make a more suitable means of debate is a true sign of failure. People use the word "believe" in many contexts and not all of them mean they require faith on the same level as it requires faith to believe in a 2000 year old zombie. "I believe the mailman came today" is a whole lot different than "I believe the Earth is 6000 years old, every scientist in the world is wrong, and the Bible is the only way to discern truth."
Either way, perhaps the person shouldn't have written "I believe..." prior to making his statement about his personal beliefs... Of course, any decent philosopher will tell you that you cannot prove something 100%. So, if you must beg and plead and whine about using the word "believe" to cover a small fraction of a person's personal opinion than feel free to do so. But, it only makes your point look less and less valid.
Try again. Only next time, try to actually prove your arguments with facts, particularly ones based in empirical evidence, before you try to appeal to a common basis of the word "belief" just so you can inject the word "faith" into the conversation.
Shalom......you start by saying "I believe" indicating some measure of "faith" you have in our thought process...regardless of the error you assume on our behalf. Then you assume the first place stating "I and many others believe" indicating some measure of "faith" in certain things. Then you contradict your statements of faith by stating that the basis of evolution "not being true" must be proven with "facts" and "evidence"...not faith. If you're in for a penny you're in for a pound......either you "believe" in evolution or you don't. The Blessings of The Eternal One help you decide...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
There's no educating somebody whose mind is already made up.
You can give them all the facts and evidence in the world and they're still gonna believe otherwise because they want to.
Well I believe we already have one good example of what I was talking about here.
Well I believe we already have one good example of what I was talking about here.
Christians believe because they basically have no choice. When I began to have minute doubts my conscience would bother me. I wondered if those around me could tell that I doubted. I continued to travel to nearby towns and give testimony in their small churches. I preached to those I worked with and tried to tell people about the lord at every opportunity. My life was framed for me by my grandmother, early school teachers and people in the church.
I already had grandchildren when I finally made up my mind to stop beating myself up about my doubts, stop attending church and to speak out against the Jewish fables and fairy tales. It amazing what level of power early brainwashing of infants and small children has over their lives. Hey! It's worked for thousands of years but social media techniques in the modern world are beginning to change that. More young people are learning what ancient god worship is and how so many have believed it in the past. I won't live to see it but it's days are doomed.
Cut the crap, littlewitness. I've already explained to you in a previous thread how you like to contort words to suit your worldview. Apparently you've forgotten that many times in a dictionary a word can or will have more than one meaning which is often dictated by the context of its usage.
The whole contextual argument which you choose to bring up about the word "believe" does not coincide with how you justify using the word "faith." The word "believe" alone has a variety of different uses - not all of which require this pathetic idea of "faith" to be synonymously interchanged. A few examples:
"I can't believe half of the preachers in the Southern Baptist Community secretly have homosexual desires!"
In the above case, the narrator is expressing astonishment and the word "believe" is used as a transitive to help identify with the exclamatory notion.
Pretty much everyone believes the Catholic Church is really nothing more than a giant child prostitution ring.
In this case, we have a pretty popular sentiment that is backed by a rather large amount of evidence. Though the official function of the Church is to get as much money as possi... I mean... Get people "closer to God," the only thing it's done recently is get young boys closer to penises. However, there is a certain amount of exaggeration implied in the sentence with the terminology "Pretty much everyone" can be such an all-inclusive statement. Therefore, the word "believe" should be taken in the lesser form as meaning "most people have the general assumption." In many cases, the word "believe" is used in this way. But, that's not the only way it can be used in the English language.
I love this next one because I found it straight out of the dictionary:
There are those on the fringes of the Church who do not really believe.
In this case, it's used as an intransitive linking verb describing those on the fringes of the Church and their general association. Since it's not a main embodiment of the sentence structure, comes at the end, and does not "take something" it is considered intransitive. It is in this case which the word "believe" becomes a little more finite and non-discretionary. It also makes the statement less about "faith" and more about the general consensus of a group of people.
I know it's one of the religions' and especially Creationists' favorite pastimes but contorting the English language to make a more suitable means of debate is a true sign of failure. People use the word "believe" in many contexts and not all of them mean they require faith on the same level as it requires faith to believe in a 2000 year old zombie. "I believe the mailman came today" is a whole lot different than "I believe the Earth is 6000 years old, every scientist in the world is wrong, and the Bible is the only way to discern truth."
Either way, perhaps the person shouldn't have written "I believe..." prior to making his statement about his personal beliefs... Of course, any decent philosopher will tell you that you cannot prove something 100%. So, if you must beg and plead and whine about using the word "believe" to cover a small fraction of a person's personal opinion than feel free to do so. But, it only makes your point look less and less valid.
Try again. Only next time, try to actually prove your arguments with facts, particularly ones based in empirical evidence, before you try to appeal to a common basis of the word "belief" just so you can inject the word "faith" into the conversation.
Shalom...1. Thanks for the "explanation" 2. Thanks for the "explanation"...Verbose. With all sincerity friend, your offense is duly noted. Furthermore, you're the only one begging, pleading, and whining about the "use" of the word believe. However, if we were doing such a thing in regard to someones' "personal opinion" (belief) in/on evolution, you are correct that it would only cover a small fraction...compared to the millions of years that are assumed before one who "believes" such a fantastic premise had "evolved" enough to form such an itty bitty opinion (4:17 says take your time). So calm down, and remember that Yeshua Messiac died for you...offense or faith. The Blessings of The Eternal One provide you The Shield of His Faith...
In consideration of the thread title I would, reasonably I think, expect to get more of a response to my questions. They really aren't that difficult and I promise not to bite - however, I have been known to bite back if bitten.
AREQUIPA, I do sincerely appreciate your response. Would you agree that the 'Bible literalist" term tends to be subjective?
Your answer to my evolution question is not quite what I was looking for. I'm asking what it is that you mean when you use the term in the general sense. When you use the term are you presenting it as an alternative to creation?
That isn't attributed to Yahwench, but the likelihood that it actually happened is very real. Read Fernando Montesinos' Memorias Antiguas Historiales del Peru. When I read it over 20 years ago, you could only get reproductions through university libraries because the book was written circa 1635, but I think it is now in print because of the high demand due to the fact that it contains corroborating evidence.
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...you start by saying "I believe" indicating some measure of "faith" you have in our thought process...regardless of the error you assume on our behalf. Then you assume the first place stating "I and many others believe" indicating some measure of "faith" in certain things. Then you contradict your statements of faith by stating that the basis of evolution "not being true" must be proven with "facts" and "evidence"...not faith. If you're in for a penny you're in for a pound...
...either you "believe" in evolution or you don't. The Blessings of The Eternal One help you decide...
The Truth
). So calm down, and remember that Yeshua Messiac died for you...offense or faith. The Blessings of The Eternal One provide you The Shield of His Faith...
