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These documents were fought and argued over before the final drafts.
The men who wrote them did so based on Judeo-Christian law.
The great men knew better than to include religion in those documents.
Other than the mention of Natures God and endowed by their Creator.
Again, what religion is God?
Actually GOD can be very religion-centric. I'm pretty sure that Christians don't consider Allah ("God") the same god as theirs.
Likewise, the primitive man-made tribal "god" of The Bible certainly is not the far more rational NATURE'S GOD of Deism that myself and the founders of this country believed in.
This country was founded on Judeo-Christian values.
No it wasn't.
None of the freedoms this country was founded upon are "Christian" or "Biblical" in nature or origin. Freedom of speech and religion most certainly ARE NOT. No, this country was founded by people FLEEING from countries based on Christian principles. They're called monarchies, theocracies and dictatorships.
I rather doubt that after 1776 years of Christian domination in the west that there would suddenly appear a free nation founded on Christian principles. LOL! Please..
If it were, perhaps the Constitution would be better understood.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
~ John Adams ~
Yes, well good thing that morality doesn't come from religion eh? And as you Christers keep insisting, Christianity isn't a religion (but atheism is).
BTW Mr Adams also stated that "the government of the United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian religion". Everyone at that time agreed with that statement, including George Washington.
I get so sick and tired of reading posts and threads from evangelicals or fundamentalist Christians claiming that the United States of America was founded on Christian principles when if they would take the time to educate themselves they wouldn't make such broad statements:
from the Declaration of Independence.
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impelled them to the separation.
And the preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America.
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.
Now I have offered links here for anyone who wishes to read these historic documents and educate yourself before making such broad statements, you will notice that there is no mention of Christianity or any Christian God of any kind in any of these documents.
So in conclusion, this country was not founded on any Christian principles.
Sorry to interrupt the mutual admiration society you all have going here.
You're going to have to do a lot better than this if you expect to be convincing to anyone beyond the choir. The entire Old Testament Book of Esther makes no mention of God either...should we conclude that it doesn't belong in the Bible?
Have you read the Mayflower Compact lately?
Have you ever heard of John Locke or Samuel Rutherford - both heavily grounded in Puritan/Presbyterian (just about as "evangelically fundamental" as you can get) Systematic theology?
Are you at all familiar with the Federalist Papers?
Do you even understand Biblical hermeneutics to the degree that you would actually be able to recognize a "Christian principle?"
Sorry to interrupt the mutual admiration society you all have going here.
You're going to have to do a lot better than this if you expect to be convincing to anyone beyond the choir. The entire Old Testament Book of Esther makes no mention of God either...should we conclude that it doesn't belong in the Bible?
Have you read the Mayflower Compact lately?
Have you ever heard of John Locke or Samuel Rutherford - both heavily grounded in Puritan/Presbyterian (just about as "evangelically fundamental" as you can get) Systematic theology?
Are you at all familiar with the Federalist Papers?
Do you even understand Biblical hermeneutics to the degree that you would actually be able to recognize a "Christian principle?"
Why don't you give us a list of "Christian principles", particularly ones this country was founded upon.
I've asked for such many a time but never receive any that past muster.
Sorry to interrupt the mutual admiration society you all have going here.
You're going to have to do a lot better than this if you expect to be convincing to anyone beyond the choir. The entire Old Testament Book of Esther makes no mention of God either...should we conclude that it doesn't belong in the Bible?
Have you read the Mayflower Compact lately?
Have you ever heard of John Locke or Samuel Rutherford - both heavily grounded in Puritan/Presbyterian (just about as "evangelically fundamental" as you can get) Systematic theology?
Are you at all familiar with the Federalist Papers?
Do you even understand Biblical hermeneutics to the degree that you would actually be able to recognize a "Christian principle?"
Anything before 1776 has no bearing on the founding of this country, those were individual colonies at the time and it wasn't until the Constitution a United States was ratified by the 13 states that we became the United States of America and as such are subject to the laws of this country, so anything prior to that has no bearing whatsoever on what this thread is about. This country operates under the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights, not under the Mayflower Compact, Articles of Confederation or anything that John Locke or Samuel Rutherford happen to have written down, our laws do not come under the 10 Commandments or even the Christian sacred book. You are grasping at straws to try to put a Christian spin on the foundation of this country when the laws and the documents that this country was founded and operates on clearly indicates otherwise.
Anything before 1776 has no bearing on the founding of this country, those were individual colonies at the time and it wasn't until the Constitution a United States was ratified by the 13 states that we became the United States of America and as such are subject to the laws of this country, so anything prior to that has no bearing whatsoever on what this thread is about. This country operates under the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights, not under the Mayflower Compact, Articles of Confederation or anything that John Locke or Samuel Rutherford happen to have written down, our laws do not come under the 10 Commandments or even the Christian sacred book. You are grasping at straws to try to put a Christian spin on the foundation of this country when the laws and the documents that this country was founded and operates on clearly indicates otherwise.
Your point is well taken ptsum.
OTOH...Say I were to go into a business...kill most of the people that started it, and swindle the rest...then occupy it and take it over. If I made modifications of how the business was run and implemented new policies...and filed "documents" to "put it in my name", and "establish the new by-laws" of the business...and I got away with doing all of that. Would you then agree with anyone that said it was ME that "founded" that business...or that I even had any right to be there...let alone claim it as mine and set policy?
Remember...those same kind of people that wrote "those documents" and "those laws", gave us this: Pocahontas. Make sure you read the text of the link.
This may not be a common sentiment...but I'm not very impressed with them, or any of the shill documents they put up...part of which, IMO, covered up their REAL agenda.
They were nothing but politicians...rather egotistical and crooked ones at that.
We are where we are today...but I question the REAL motives of most of those guys back then.
Sorry to interrupt the mutual admiration society you all have going here.
Are you at all familiar with the Federalist Papers?
Do you even understand Biblical hermeneutics to the degree that you would actually be able to recognize a "Christian principle?"
I'd say it's you who has not read The Federalist Papers, but for now I have a simple question for you.
How would you change the laws and political empowerment in this country, to better reflect its supposed Christian origin? Too many times, I've heard that we're missing something, that if only we adhered to a more rigorous Christian ethic, we'd all be in such a wonderful place.
Nice to have those books and documents that other people have written about the things that happen during the writing of those two documents and I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with them, however those writing cannot tell you what the individuals were thinking at the time they were writing those documents.
As for your baited question about God, we could just as easily change that saying to "In The Creator We Trust" I wonder how you would feel about that.
What makes you think our laws are Judeo-Christian laws?
No bait intended.
I'd be fine with "In the Creator We Trust", since God IS the creator.
Our laws are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Sorry that it doesn't fit your world view.
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