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Mark 10:19 "Thou knowest the commandments: Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false testimony. Thou shalt not defraud, Honor thy father and thy mother." (Sinaticus)
Can anyone find the commandment "Thou shalt not defraud"? Or is this Jesus' error?
Mar_10:19 Defraud not - Do not take away your neighbor’s property by fraud or
dishonesty. To “cheat” or “defraud,” supposes a covetous desire of a
neighbor’s property, and is usually attended with “falsehood” or “false
witness” against a neighbor in obtaining it. It is thus a violation of the
ninth and tenth commandments; and our Saviour very properly, therefore,
“condensed the two,” and expressed their substance in this - not to
defraud. It is, besides, expressly forbidden in Lev_19:13; “Thou shalt not
defraud thy neighbor. (Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible).
Mar_10:19 Defraud not - Do not take away your neighbor’s property by fraud or
dishonesty. To “cheat” or “defraud,” supposes a covetous desire of a
neighbor’s property, and is usually attended with “falsehood” or “false
witness” against a neighbor in obtaining it. It is thus a violation of the
ninth and tenth commandments; and our Saviour very properly, therefore,
“condensed the two,” and expressed their substance in this - not to
defraud. It is, besides, expressly forbidden in Lev_19:13; “Thou shalt not
defraud thy neighbor.
Again, you are just plain wrong.
RESPONSE:
You must learn to read and understand the actual words in scripture,not what you would have liked them to have said.
Mark 10:19 "Thou knowest the commandments: Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false testimony. Thou shalt not defraud, Honor thy father and thy mother."
Here are the Commandments as listed in the Old Testament to which Jesus referred.
The 10 commandments come from Exodus 20:1-17.
"And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
The Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Nowhere else in the Bible is the entire Decalogue quoted. Many OT passages may offer commentaries on some of the ten commandments (as does Leviticus among others), but the Ten Commandments are only found in these two books
Please demonstrate the Commandment "Thou shalt not defraud" in either list of the Ten Commandments. Not some other passage of commentary. If it's not there in either, then regardless of Alfred Barnes' views, Jesus was in error.
As are you.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 02-21-2011 at 06:23 PM..
Reason: Addition
You must learn to read and understand the actual words in scripture,not what you would have liked them to have said.
Mark 10:19 "Thou knowest the commandments: Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false testimony. Thou shalt not defraud, Honor thy father and thy mother."
Here are the Commandments as listed in the Old Testament to which Jesus referred.
The 10 commandments come from Exodus 20:1-17.
"And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
The Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Nowhere else in the Bible is the entire Decalogue quoted. Many OT passages may offer commentaries on some of the ten commandments (as does Leviticus among others), but the Ten Commandments are only found in these two books
Please demonstrate the Commandment "Thou shalt not defraud" in either list of the Ten Commandments. Not some other passage of commentary. If it's not there in either, then regardless of Alfred Barnes' views, Jesus was in error.
As are you.
Originally Posted by Eusebius Mar_10:19 Defraud not - Do not take away your neighbor’s property by fraud or dishonesty. To “cheat” or “defraud,” supposes a covetous desire of a neighbor’s property, and is usually attended with “falsehood” or “false witness” against a neighbor in obtaining it. It is thus a violation of the ninth and tenth commandments; and our Saviour very properly, therefore, “condensed the two,” and expressed their substance in this - not to defraud. It is, besides, expressly forbidden in Lev_19:13; “Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor.
Originally Posted by Eusebius Mar_10:19 Defraud not - Do not take away your neighbor’s property by fraud or dishonesty. To “cheat” or “defraud,” supposes a covetous desire of a neighbor’s property, and is usually attended with “falsehood” or “false witness” against a neighbor in obtaining it. It is thus a violation of the ninth and tenth commandments; and our Saviour very properly, therefore, “condensed the two,” and expressed their substance in this - not to defraud. It is, besides, expressly forbidden in Lev_19:13; “Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor.
Again, you are just plain wrong.
RESPONSE:
Mark 10:19 "Thou knowest the commandments: Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false testimony. Thou shalt not defraud, Honor thy father and thy mother."
Once again, Leviticus does dose not contain the Decalogue to which Jesus referred. He quoted it, not a "condensed" version to which your "expert" seems to refer, nor an interpretion in Leviticus, etc.
The Decalogue is found only in Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21.
Matthew has Jesus quoting it just about verbatim. Look it up and observe actual words, not a further interpretation.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 02-22-2011 at 06:42 AM..
Reason: addtion
Mark 15: 23 “And they offered him wine mixed with myrrh; but he did not take it.” (NRSV) Refused the wine.
Matt 27:34 “…they offered him wine to drink, mixed with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it.’ (NRSV) Tried it.
John 19:29-30 “A jar full of sour wine was standing there. So they put a sponge full of the wine on a branch of hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the wine…,” (NRSV) Drank it.
According to scripture, did Jesus refuse the wine, try the wine, or drink the wine?? Do these three passages atually say the same thing or are they contradictions.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 02-22-2011 at 07:04 AM..
Reason: Removed "SIZE" information.
Mark 15: 23 “And they offered him wine mixed with myrrh; but he did not take it.” (NRSV) Refused the wine.
Matt 27:34 “…they offered him wine to drink, mixed with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it.’ (NRSV) Tried it.
John 19:29-30 “A jar full of sour wine was standing there. So they put a sponge full of the wine on a branch of hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the wine…,” (NRSV) Drank it.
According to scripture, did Jesus refuse the wine, try the wine, or drink the wine?? Do these three passages atually say the same thing or are they contradictions.
ADDENDUM:
I don't know what Eusebius will tell us about Alfred Barnes' possible explanation for the above contradictions, but Ralph's Bible Study Guide for the Credulous claims that there need be no contradictions here at all. Wine was served in the first, second, and third hours.
If you can't prove that didn't happen, you just have to accept it!
Matthew's error or deliberate omission is used to claim a sign [ie all generations...fourteen generations]. It is freqeuntly overlooked.
Matthew 1:17 “So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon to the Messiah, fourteen generations."
Matthew 1: 8-9 "...and Asaph the father of Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah, and Uzziah [also know as Azariah ] the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah.... (NRSV)
“All the generations”? Fourteen generations?This is not true. Matthew left out: “…Ahaziah his son, Joash his son, (and)Amaziah" ...to make his “fourteen generations” come out right.
See 1 Chron 3:11-13 The son of Solomon was Rehoboam, whose son was Abijah, whose son was Asa, whose son was Jehoshaphat, whose son was Joram, whose son was ***Ahaziah, whose son was Joash,whose son was Amaziah,*** whose son was Azariah, whose son was Jotham,whose son was Ahaz, whose son was Hezekiah, whose son was Manasseh, whose son was Amon, whose son was Josiah.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 02-23-2011 at 04:05 PM..
Reason: Removed SIZEs
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