Homosexuals were made to be Homosexuals (grace, translation, Mormon, suicide)

[PITTSTON2SARASOTA]

Originally Posted by hljc

Transvestites may have been born with to many ``Y``or ``X`` chromosomes, but the study for Homosexual disorder ended with the authority that no study is needed as the popular belief that Homosexual is normal psychology, according to the liberal tolerances .......... But there are Homosexual people who turn to Lord Jesus Christ and get spiritually delivered and end up heterosexual with no sexual attraction to the same sex , go figure....

Here are a few PROFESSIONAL LINKS that may enlighten your viewpoint>>>>>

Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

Gay Is Okay With APA (American Psychiatric Association) (http://www.soulforce.org/article/642 - broken link)

Official Statement Concerning Homosexuality from the American Psychological Association | CLGS

Sexual orientation and its basis in brain structure and function .

[Raphael07]

Well.... this thread was an.... unusual read. But now I feel compelled to take my stand.

First of all I'm going to say this, I'm a Christian who is gay, not a Gay man who is Christian because I find my faith to be far more important. Do I think being gay is a sin? Well... to be honest I don't know for sure, because Jesus himself never made any statement on homosexuality, except for perhaps Matthew 5:22 which some people say condemns homophobia but the way it reads isn't entirely clear. Anyway I have prayed on it for years... and in the past years one verse has kept coming up over and over and over again, something I had never seen before, Jeremiah 29:11 which reads

"For I know the plans I have for you," Says the Lord "Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future"

I take that as I sign that being gay is alright. I will continue to be celibate until some form of marriage or bonding in the eyes of God takes place. However, say I'm wrong and it is a sin.... well, from what I recall Jesus came to save us from sins known and unknown, so I think I'll be fine. I will continue to pray on it though, pray for hope, acceptance, love, compassion, and empathy. For me and all the world. Nothing else matters.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by bjhulk

Just love your family and friends before the end comes because it will be the last you'll ever see them again. We get new bodies in the next age that won't have any memory of this age but former sinners will be reborn into paradise. So they'll grow up without having any concern about the past just like when we were kids during this age. Did you think about history or where we came from at the age of 3?

Those of us who were chosen will get new adult bodies and have the knowledge of God that was given to us during this age. Our bodies won't have memory either, so this knowledge will guide us to form a new vocabulary and language for God to use to speak through us. We were created in the same spirit together but man was created both male and female and will be born with two bodies of the opposite sex and be partners forever. They will be the baby makers until the world is repopulated with all God's living creations in their new bodies.

So there's nothing to worry about. I was given a strong desire to preach the gospel until I'm killed, then the end will come. It won't be long from now when the earth starts to shake violently but don't worry about your flesh because your in God as we speak. God's creation doesn't have to go anywhere because we are nothing but thoughts within the thoughts of God. This is where we have our life and the light energy he created is the power that transmits our thoughts into our brains where they are processed. This information makes our bodies function according to God's plans. Just like a puppeteer pulling the strings of his puppet.

Auh, no. Not what God created at all. There are no strings attached. God's will may be done, on earth as it is in Heaven, this is true.

However, man's choice is always and will always be that of his own. Men love darkness, rather than light. They always have and they always will.

If we were all puppets on a string, then people would be rather boring every one thinking the same as every one else.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by Raphael07

Well.... this thread was an.... unusual read. But now I feel compelled to take my stand.

First of all I'm going to say this, I'm a Christian who is gay, not a Gay man who is Christian because I find my faith to be far more important. Do I think being gay is a sin? Well... to be honest I don't know for sure, because Jesus himself never made any statement on homosexuality, except for perhaps Matthew 5:22 which some people say condemns homophobia but the way it reads isn't entirely clear. Anyway I have prayed on it for years... and in the past years one verse has kept coming up over and over and over again, something I had never seen before, Jeremiah 29:11 which reads

"For I know the plans I have for you," Says the Lord "Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future"

I take that as I sign that being gay is alright. I will continue to be celibate until some form of marriage or bonding in the eyes of God takes place. However, say I'm wrong and it is a sin.... well, from what I recall Jesus came to save us from sins known and unknown, so I think I'll be fine. I will continue to pray on it though, pray for hope, acceptance, love, compassion, and empathy. For me and all the world. Nothing else matters.

Thank you so much for sharing. This, is beautiful.

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by bjhulk

Just love your family and friends before the end comes because it will be the last you'll ever see them again. We get new bodies in the next age that won't have any memory of this age but former sinners will be reborn into paradise. So they'll grow up without having any concern about the past just like when we were kids during this age. Did you think about history or where we came from at the age of 3?

Those of us who were chosen will get new adult bodies and have the knowledge of God that was given to us during this age. Our bodies won't have memory either, so this knowledge will guide us to form a new vocabulary and language for God to use to speak through us. We were created in the same spirit together but man was created both male and female and will be born with two bodies of the opposite sex and be partners forever. They will be the baby makers until the world is repopulated with all God's living creations in their new bodies.

So there's nothing to worry about. I was given a strong desire to preach the gospel until I'm killed, then the end will come. It won't be long from now when the earth starts to shake violently but don't worry about your flesh because your in God as we speak. God's creation doesn't have to go anywhere because we are nothing but thoughts within the thoughts of God. This is where we have our life and the light energy he created is the power that transmits our thoughts into our brains where they are processed. This information makes our bodies function according to God's plans. Just like a puppeteer pulling the strings of his puppet.

This is the biggest load of crap I've ever seen, where do you get your information from? The earth is going to shake violently? When is that going to happen? Geez Louise, I'm skeered.

[Thomas R.]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

You have a point Nep321, it's very meaningful, this discussion that we're having. Whether science or rational thought come into play here doesn't really matter, we're talking about real life situations and the fact that homosexuality really exists, it ain't going away.

Christianity is steeped in the OT, and let's be honest here, Jesus Christ never said one word about homosexuality. Did he? That's what I base my Christianity on, is Jesus Christ. And He came to do away with the OT laws and the idiotic things that those people came up with. God in the form of man. If anyone wants to know how to live and what to do then they need to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not the OT. It's done away with, the teachings and the laws. Jesus rules!!

A problem is there are many things Jesus did not speak of, but this surely doesn't make them all acceptable. I'm not sure that Jesus ever spoke of sibling-marriage or did he? I'm not even sure Paul spoke about it. This wouldn't seem to imply such things are okay at least not to me.

Also I feel that by implication Jesus actually does forbid homosexual sex. Mark 7:21 speaks of fornication in a list of sins. Jesus never implies that marriage can refer to the union of two men or two women. If gay and lesbians couples aren't in marriage, and fornication is not allowed, it's difficult to see how homosexual actions are allowed.

Although maybe "difficult" isn't the same as "impossible" and you're free to believe as you like.

[jghorton]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Homosexuals were made to be Homosexuals ........ not so. God is not the originator of what is Moderator cut: deleted

Leviticus 18:22
“‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable

Leviticus 20:13
“‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.
They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Deuteronomy 7:26
"Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction.
Utterly abhor and detest it, for it is set apart for destruction."

Deuteronomy 18:12
Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD,
and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

Deuteronomy 23:18
You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the LORD your God to pay any vow, because the LORD your God detests them both.

Romans 1:26

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.


Romans 1:27
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.
Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

As I've read down through the posts on this thread, yours (Twin Spin) would have been the approach I would have taken! At least you have established a basis for what you believe ... and not simply relied on philosophical rhetoric.

The Bible is the source of what we know about God and His plan for this world and mankind. The notion that one can selectively rely on 'some' of the Bible, yet, ignore the parts that disagree with one's assumptions --- defies the logic and wisdom that these same detractors claim to possess.

Since ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's Glory, one might 'assume' that God created sinners to sin! .... However, what then is God's purpose in redeeming 'willing' sinners from the 'wages of sin' through Jesus Christ ... and giving the redeemed a new, life-changing, Spiritual Rebirth through Christ, by His Indwelling Holy Spirit. Sounds like 'a house divided against itself.'

If you want to better understand God and His plan, go to His inspired Word and actually discover what it says. Arbitrarily presuming that one knows what the Bible says ... or that men have overcome and changed God's inspiration (with no basis beyond opinion) ... is a 'fools errand'.

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

You have a point Nep321, it's very meaningful, this discussion that we're having. Whether science or rational thought come into play here doesn't really matter, we're talking about real life situations and the fact that homosexuality really exists, it ain't going away.

Christianity is steeped in the OT, and let's be honest here, Jesus Christ never said one word about homosexuality. Did he? That's what I base my Christianity on, is Jesus Christ. And He came to do away with the OT laws and the idiotic things that those people came up with. God in the form of man. If anyone wants to know how to live and what to do then they need to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not the OT. It's done away with, the teachings and the laws. Jesus rules!!

Give me a break ...........Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Just who taught Paul ...?

Romans 1:27
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.
Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by jghorton

As I've read down through the posts on this thread, yours (Twin Spin) would have been the approach I would have taken! At least you have established a basis for what you believe ... and not simply relied on philosophical rhetoric.

The Bible is the source of what we know about God and His plan for this world and mankind. The notion that one can selectively rely on 'some' of the Bible, yet, ignore the parts that disagree with one's assumptions --- defies the logic and wisdom that these same detractors claim to possess.

Since ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's Glory, one might 'assume' that God created sinners to sin! .... However, what then is God's purpose in redeeming 'willing' sinners from the 'wages of sin' through Jesus Christ ... and giving the redeemed a new, life-changing, Spiritual Rebirth through Christ, by His Indwelling Holy Spirit. Sounds like 'a house divided against itself.'

If you want to better understand God and His plan, go to His inspired Word and actually discover what it says. Arbitrarily presuming that one knows what the Bible says ... or that men have overcome and changed God's inspiration (with no basis beyond opinion) ... is a 'fools errand'.

Thanks. I rely on God's word. God isn't politically correct and will have the last word. Jesus did speak on the subject:

Leviticus 18:22
“‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable"

Leviticus 20:13
“‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable."

Deuteronomy 23:18
You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the LORD your God to pay any vow, because the LORD your God detests them both.

Romans 1:27
"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their p e r v e r s i o n. "


Romans 1:27
... and received in themselves the due penalty for their p e r v e r s i o n. "

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

KJV
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

YLT
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Thanks. I rely on God's word. God isn't politically correct and will have the last word. Jesus did speak on the subject:

Leviticus 18:22
“‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable"

Leviticus 20:13
“‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable."

Deuteronomy 23:18
You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the LORD your God to pay any vow, because the LORD your God detests them both.

Romans 1:27
"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their p e r v e r s i o n. "


Romans 1:27
... and received in themselves the due penalty for their p e r v e r s i o n. "

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

KJV
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

YLT
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit.