A Book on the Bible and Homosexuality (myth, beliefs, belief)

[Nea1]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

So religion must become more tolerant of a lifestyle that is killing people by the millions? So that is what changing times require? Support those who would spread a virus that leaves children without parents, and ends the future of so many young people and families. WOW, are we enlightened.

First of all it is not a lifestyle, they are born the way they are.

Second, it is called teaching and educating on how to protect yourself.
Your religion has no business telling people that are not of your beliefs what they can or cant do or judging and condemning them.. If you are truly part of a tolerable and loving religion, you support and show compassion. Two things that I don't think apply to most in the religious community ( at least from my experience)

[mikebnllnb]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

So religion must become more tolerant of a lifestyle that is killing people by the millions? So that is what changing times require? Support those who would spread a virus that leaves children without parents, and ends the future of so many young people and families. WOW, are we enlightened.

How about you just become enlightened. Lets look at Africa. 2/3rds of all global cases of HIV/AIDS occur on the African continent. That's 23 million people. 60% of those cases are women. So clearly HIV/AIDS is not a disease of only the gay community when looking at it globally. In the US gays are the most at risk but not significantly so. With 53% of new cases of HIV/AIDS in gay/bi patients 47% in heterosexual/Injection drug users. So your characterization of this disease is a GROSS misrepresentation. The issue is not the lifestyle it is lack of education and the stigma attached to the disease. A stigma that those with attitudes like yours help to perpetuate.

[SeekerSA]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Anytime you reduce God's laws to a simple plumbing problem, your going to have more problems. Clearly the God of the Bible tells us in Leviticus 20:13 that if a man has sexual relations with another man as a man does with a woman, these two men have done a hateful sin.

Only according to your bible. If plumbing is the problem then the xians performing oral sex and using the alternate orifice, are just as kinky as the gay men. Odd that lesbians get a pass. Probably 'cause even back in the good ol' days, they (the men) found it arousing.

See the problem is not about plumbing, but being attracted to one's own sex and is more than just the dangly bits between the legs. If it was just that, the hetero xians are just as guilty of pure lust. However their is a love and companionship component you lot just cannot seem to get your head around. The way you lot carry on, one would swear they are at it 24/7. Perhaps 5 mins in a day is taken up in the dirty deed, that leaves a whole lot of time just to look at each other and wait for the next 5 minutes the following day. I am sure your marriage is quite fine if that is how you do it. But I think any rational person knows there is more to a partnership than just plain sex. Hint, it is called LOVE.

I am straight and have no issue about gays, hell I do not even imagine how they do it, got more productive things to think about. All I can think is the ones so obsessed with homosexuals are the ones that are closet cases. As they say, the lady protesteth too much.

Really I would not have an issue with this bigotry if the xians followed their sick doctrine to the T. By that I mean you should be in the faces of the folk that divorce and remarry and should be citing the adultery verses to them, do you folk do it? NO! That is why we see the majority of divorces are in xian marriages. Claiming the majority as the predominant religion, then you have to accept that 55% of 75% of Americans are adulterers. Thus proportionally, gays actually sin less than xians.

Furthermore, Hugh Hefner's empire cannot survive with the valued support of the xians, so too the porn industry. We atheists and our gay friends are just not that affluent to support both industries all on our 10%ish of the population, we are after all spending our time leading others astray, sacrificing babies to satan, and engaging in lewd sex 24/7. It just is not possible to cover all the bases xians would have us believe we do.

Or maybe xians believe atheists and gays are omnipresent?

And if you really wanted to follow God SeekerSa, you would agree with the Biblical account. However I don't believe God's words are really that important to you.

Nope, not interested, tried it but realized it was all in my head.

[Nighteyes]

Okay, let's try something. Each and every Christian on this thread who has cited a Biblical quote - one that seems to prohibit homosexuality - has drawn it from the Old Testament.

Since only the New Testament contains the teachings of Christ, can any Christian here cite New Testament verses that voice the same prohibition? I frankly don't know whether or not they exist.

Enguiring minds, and all that...

-- Nighteyes

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by Nighteyes

Okay, let's try something. Each and every Christian on this thread who has cited a Biblical quote - one that seems to prohibit homosexuality - has drawn it from the Old Testament.

Since only the New Testament contains the teachings of Christ, can any Christian here cite New Testament verses that voice the same prohibition? I frankly don't know whether or not they exist.

Enguiring minds, and all that...

-- Nighteyes

New Testament

Romans 1:26,27 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

New Testament

Romans 1:26,27 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

Can you quote what Jesus had to say about homosexuality and not Paul? Last time I checked, Paul was not God.

[HalfNelson]

Originally Posted by Nea1

First of all it is not a lifestyle, they are born the way they are.

Second, it is called teaching and educating on how to protect yourself.
Your religion has no business telling people that are not of your beliefs what they can or cant do or judging and condemning them.. If you are truly part of a tolerable and loving religion, you support and show compassion. Two things that I don't think apply to most in the religious community ( at least from my experience)

No one is born having sexual intercourse. Having sexual intercourse with a person of any sex is always a choice unless it is rape. A homosexual lifestyle is by definition a choice. Just look up the word lifestyle in a dictionary. Sexual orientation may not be a choice, but as hard as it may be to resist, being attracted to someone does not mean that you have no control whether or not you have sex with them. Fact remains that is always a choice. That is the lifestyle that is chosen. To openly engage in amorous relationships with people of the same sex, is in fact a lifestyle choice. It is perfectly natural for me to want the money that sits in a bank vault, I cannot control that desire, but what I can control is whether or not I choose the lifestyle of a bank robber. It maybe hard to resist, but if I want to live a life a certain way, that is my choice. What about something that is legal, pornography. I am naturally attracted to porn stars, does that mean that I have no choice but to enter into a porn star lifestyle? Or a lifestyle focused on porn? You know, one of those people that chooses to go to all the conventions and collects all films, maybe even starts their own production company and tries to get into the business as an actor, producer, director, or anything else that immerses in that "lifestyle". Do you see the point I'm clearly making? My natural sexual attraction to beautiful women is something I cannot control, however, I can clearly choose how I live my life.

Originally Posted by revrandy

Can you quote what Jesus had to say about homosexuality and not Paul? Last time I checked, Paul was not God.

Can you quote anything Christ said about shooting black tar heroin? No? so does that make it ok?

[Jaymax]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Jaymax, you really need to study a Bible before you make such statements.

OLD TESTAMENT

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man has sexual relations with another man as a man does with a woman, these two men have done a hateful sin. They must be put to death."

So yes Jaymax, the Bible does tells us the Homosexual lifestyle should be avoided. And your above opinion would be obviously wrong.

Campbell, you really need to study a Bible, AND the original languages and cultural contexts in which the texts were written...before you make such statements.

No the Bible does NOT say that "the homosexual lifestlye should be avoided". You are reading that into the texts and ignoring the cultural contexts of the time.

So how about you explain what qadesh were?
You might see the relevance to Leviticus 20:13 if you do a bit of research. Hint... Look at Deuteronomy 23:17 as well.
Then match up everything that has a death penalty in Leviticus 20 with everything throughout Deuteronomy which has a death penalty. What is missing? What is "added"?
If you have no idea what I am talking about, then you have not even begun to study this topic.

[Jaymax]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

New Testament

Romans 1:26,27 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

Again, you take a verse out of the context of it's first century setting....as well as out of context of Paul's letter.

His letter was NOT about homosexuals. Read the whole letter again without your homophobic bias and you may have a better idea what Paul was referring to. Where was Paul writing this letter from? Who was he writing to? What was happening in the culture at the time? What was happening with some of the converts? What do you know about first century fertilty cults and worshipping practices?

[Jaymax]

Originally Posted by HalfNelson

No one is born having sexual intercourse. Having sexual intercourse with a person of any sex is always a choice unless it is rape. A homosexual lifestyle is by definition a choice. Just look up the word lifestyle in a dictionary. Sexual orientation may not be a choice, but as hard as it may be to resist, being attracted to someone does not mean that you have no control whether or not you have sex with them. Fact remains that is always a choice. That is the lifestyle that is chosen. To openly engage in amorous relationships with people of the same sex, is in fact a lifestyle choice. It is perfectly natural for me to want the money that sits in a bank vault, I cannot control that desire, but what I can control is whether or not I choose the lifestyle of a bank robber. It maybe hard to resist, but if I want to live a life a certain way, that is my choice. What about something that is legal, pornography. I am naturally attracted to porn stars, does that mean that I have no choice but to enter into a porn star lifestyle? Or a lifestyle focused on porn? You know, one of those people that chooses to go to all the conventions and collects all films, maybe even starts their own production company and tries to get into the business as an actor, producer, director, or anything else that immerses in that "lifestyle". Do you see the point I'm clearly making? My natural sexual attraction to beautiful women is something I cannot control, however, I can clearly choose how I live my life.



Can you quote anything Christ said about shooting black tar heroin? No? so does that make it ok?

I'm not sure you will ever get it because of your lack of understanding of gay people, and your apparent bias.

So....You have a natural sexual (and I hope emotional) attraction to beautiful women. You fall in love with a particular woman, get married, set up house, maybe have kids etc. The same goes for gays and lesbians. It's no different except they are of the same gender not opposite.

This nonsense about porn and bank robbing just shows that you can only think of gays and lesbians in a negative way and not see them for who they are: people who fall in love and have committed relationships, families etc just like many straight people do.