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Old 02-17-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 14,247,741 times
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I will differ on that I think Christianity is to blame and the anti semitic atrocities can be traced back to the church leaders who accused Jews of deicide and blood libel.


Yes, you can trace it back to church leaders for those atrocities, but the blame should be put on their ignorance, hate and desire to control and not on the Christian faith or Gospel Teachings. There is no violence in Christ's teachings, none. Therefore, although Christian and Catholic leaders are to blame, you can't put blame on Christian faith.

Quote:
One can be a secular Jew and a religious Jew because we are part of a religon and part of a people. I don't see a problem.
I don't see a problem either. Safe to say, using this logic, I'm as much of a Jew as any Jew regardless of my faith, and most Messianic Jews don't really care whether or not they are accepted as Jews by Judaism community.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:14 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,033,921 times
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[quote=max's mama;17908354]

Yes, you can trace it back to church leaders for those atrocities, but the blame should be put on their ignorance, hate and desire to control and not on the Christian faith or Gospel Teachings. There is no violence in Christ's teachings, none. Therefore, although Christian and Catholic leaders are to blame, you can't put blame on Christian faith.

I understand that but centuries of atrocities are hard to erase and there is a feeling I know at least in my community that it could happen again and we need to be ever vigilant. We have trust in our community. To forgive is not to forget, and not to allow ourselves to be victimized ever again.



I don't see a problem either. Safe to say, using this logic, I'm as much of a Jew as any Jew regardless of my faith, and most Messianic Jews don't really care whether or not they are accepted as Jews by Judaism community.

Yes you are a Jew as is any other Jew. Our Jewishness can not be taken from us. In that I feel very secure because my Jewishness is my essence of who I am.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,483 posts, read 9,616,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max's mama View Post
I don't see a problem either. Safe to say, using this logic, I'm as much of a Jew as any Jew regardless of my faith, and most Messianic Jews don't really care whether or not they are accepted as Jews by Judaism community.

Despite Halacha, the normal English usage of "jew" generally involves as a criterion that a person, whether religious or secular, has not converted to another religion.

Now its true that, by Halacha, there is no such thing as "an ex Jew". Its ALSO true that by Halacha, there is no such thing as a half Jew either - one is, or one isn't. But the term is used by English speakers all the time anyway.

and of course not all secular Jews are really considered by most folks as Jews, halacha not withstanding.

Think Sigmund Freud vs Leon Trotsky. Both were atheists. Freud wrote some famous things against religion. But Freud was a member of the Vienna Bnai Brith, and in his work on humor, quoted Yiddish jokes without embarassment. Trotsky not only changed his name, IIUC he maintained absolute distance from anything Jewish, even from Yiddish speakers within the Communist Party.

The people, in their (unhalachic) folk wisdom, think of Freud as a Jew, Trotsky as "one who was born Jewish"

Today in Israel, the Orthodox halachic authorities have failed to keep up with the wisdom of the people, and have failed to ease the path to conversion for Russians who not only have family ties to Jews, but have committed in Israel to sharing the fate of the Jewish people. I believe ultimately halacha must follow - as Blu Greenberg said, "where there is a rabbinic will, there is a halachic way"
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:25 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,483 posts, read 9,616,710 times
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BTW, one reason many of us dont automatically assume a "messianic Jew" is a Jew, is that AFAICT there is no small number of folks in those congregations, who are in fact gentiles, of gentile birth, who are drawn to "the Jewish roots of christianity" and join for that reason. In encounters online I have also seen some such people claim to be Jewish - since they do not recognize rabbinic halacha, they can claim that they have "converted" in whatever fashion they or their group recognize.

This sets apart "messianic Jewish" groups that accept Jesus, from say the faction in Chabad that claims R' Schneerson was the Moshiach. Almost all of those people are born Jews, and those few who are not have had halachic conversions.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:28 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,483 posts, read 9,616,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max's mama View Post
There is no violence in Christ's teachings, none.

"And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables."

John, 2:15
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:17 PM
 
43,989 posts, read 44,126,350 times
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Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
BTW, one reason many of us dont automatically assume a "messianic Jew" is a Jew, is that AFAICT there is no small number of folks in those congregations, who are in fact gentiles, of gentile birth, who are drawn to "the Jewish roots of christianity" and join for that reason. In encounters online I have also seen some such people claim to be Jewish - since they do not recognize rabbinic halacha, they can claim that they have "converted" in whatever fashion they or their group recognize.

This sets apart "messianic Jewish" groups that accept Jesus, from say the faction in Chabad that claims R' Schneerson was the Moshiach. Almost all of those people are born Jews, and those few who are not have had halachic conversions.
Good point. The only person I knew personally who went to a "Jews for Jesus" church was a woman who was never Jewish in the first place. She just liked that church.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: North Texas
22,080 posts, read 28,141,918 times
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Then you shouldn't have bothered to mention your misperception of what Christianity teaches in the first place.
That's just the thing...it's not a "misperception."

You want to talk about "misperception", try being Jewish sometime sweetheart.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:31 PM
 
43,989 posts, read 44,126,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
That's just the thing...it's not a "misperception."

You want to talk about "misperception", try being Jewish sometime sweetheart.

Obviously you are not looking for a conversation, but an argument and a chance to slur others. Glad I could be there to help you exercise your inner nastiness today. Have a good one.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
2,160 posts, read 3,771,553 times
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Judaism is not only a religion, it's also an ethnic group.

You can be of Jewish origin and be Christian.

However, you're not really "Jewish" per say if you are a practicing Christian.

However, I would consider you (like myself, half Jew but practicing major holidays) to be of Jewish background.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:43 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,033,921 times
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Originally Posted by Nafster View Post
Judaism is not only a religion, it's also an ethnic group.

You can be of Jewish origin and be Christian.

However, you're not really "Jewish" per say if you are a practicing Christian.

However, I would consider you (like myself, half Jew but practicing major holidays) to be of Jewish background.

There are no half Jews. There are Jews and non Jews.

If you are of Jewish ancestry but not Jewish then you are a gentile with Jewish ancestry.

If your mom was a Jew you are a Jew with Jewish ancestry.

I hate the term half Jew and I have seen it used by Jews who see themselves as better because both their parents are Jewish.

It is often used as a put down towards Jews who have on gentile parent and one Jewish parent.

I cringe everytime I hear the word.
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