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Old 02-11-2011, 08:21 AM
 
31,384 posts, read 29,067,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Did you start this thread in seriousness, or are you just instigating? A Jew who abandons the precepts of Judaism isn't Jewish any more...just as a Christian who abandons the precepts of Christianity isn't Christian any more.
I find the issue of what constitutes Jewishness is more than a bit complex and ultimately confusing, I know because my wife is Jewish and she confuses the hell out of me on this issue. THE WIFE is an atheist, but let anyone tell her that she isn't a Jew and for gawd's sake do try and tell her that if you believe in Christ that YOU are a Jew. Talk about six degrees of separation.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I find the issue of what constitutes Jewishness is more than a bit complex and ultimately confusing, I know because my wife is Jewish and she confuses the hell out of me on this issue. THE WIFE is an atheist, but let anyone tell her that she isn't a Jew and for gawd's sake do try and tell her that if you believe in Christ that YOU are a Jew. Talk about six degrees of separation.

I could tell her she could be both a jew and a christian, but first she has to be civilized by the reckoning of an impartial man.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
How is accepting Jesus Christ as your divine lord and saviour abandoning the precepts of Judaism? Can you quote any exact scripture to back up your opinion?
The hebrew bible does not explicitly address Jesus christ, since of course it was completed before he was born.

jewish texts such as midrash and talmud make it clear that trinitarianism is not acceptable to Judaism. Those texts are part of Judaism as well as the bible. Judaism is not limited to what you find in the Hebrew bible.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:48 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,483 posts, read 9,614,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I find the issue of what constitutes Jewishness is more than a bit complex and ultimately confusing, I know because my wife is Jewish and she confuses the hell out of me on this issue. THE WIFE is an atheist, but let anyone tell her that she isn't a Jew and for gawd's sake do try and tell her that if you believe in Christ that YOU are a Jew. Talk about six degrees of separation.

By Jewish law, once born a Jew you are always a Jew, even if you commit apostasy by turning Atheist or Christian.

By folk definition however, which in some contexts is more important - adopting a different religion represents a stronger break than simply saying one does not believe in G-d. I think this is because historically jews were confined to ghettos - if you converted, you left the ghetto (you were even banned from going there) you left behind your community, your friends, even any unconverted family. You seperated your fate from the Jews. If you simply denied G-d, the authorities still saw yuo as a Jew, so yuo stayed in the ghetto, and continued to share the fate of the Jewish community.

In modern times, the folks (not the legal scholars) have accepted the Jewishness of Atheist socialists, but NOT atheist communists like Trotsky. I think that is because the communists so strongly deny nationality, especially Jewish nationality - there is no longer any basis for commonality with them - while socialists, especially Yiddish speaking socialists or Labor Zionists, were still committed to the Jewish people.

Non Jews, and Jews divorced from traditional (not necessarily religious) jewish culture, tend to look for a theological definition (I believe X) and ignore that being Jewish is really about sharing a People's fate.

When Ruth converted TO Judaism, she said "your people will be my people, and your GOD, my god"

Notice the sequence.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,610 posts, read 3,652,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
jewish texts such as midrash and talmud make it clear that trinitarianism is not acceptable to Judaism.
Thanks, that is exactly what I was asking.

Do you believe that god could take a human form and visit us on earth?
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:01 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
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No.

However, it is possible to be a Jew and a Buddhist at the same time.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
By Jewish law, once born a Jew you are always a Jew, even if you commit apostasy by turning Atheist or Christian.
By Jewish religious law if you convert to another religion, your Jewish family members will treat you as dead and say the traditional prayer of the dead for you.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,610 posts, read 3,652,245 times
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Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
By Jewish religious law if you convert to another religion, your Jewish family members will treat you as dead and say the traditional prayer of the dead for you.
That is really sad. It sounds very narrow minded to me.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
How is accepting Jesus Christ as your divine lord and saviour abandoning the precepts of Judaism? Can you quote any exact scripture to back up your opinion?
Judaism awaits the Messiah. Christianity says that Jesus is the Messiah. You may not see a problem there...but I do.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Camberville
10,769 posts, read 14,752,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
How is accepting Jesus Christ as your divine lord and saviour abandoning the precepts of Judaism? Can you quote any exact scripture to back up your opinion?

I know that Judaisn forbids worshiping idols, but you could say that Jesus was just god in another form. Does Judaism not permit god to take any form he wants?
You could not say that Jesus was G-d in another form, because he wasn't. He was a false prophet and is worshiped by Christians as an idol. I don't feel like digging through the Torah and Tanakh for all of the scripture that shows why Jesus could not be the Messiah (Jews don't really function on the whole mass copy and paste fest that seems prevalent on the Christianity forum) but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come along behind me and do just that.
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