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Old 02-14-2011, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Alaska
6 posts, read 7,458 times
Reputation: 12

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
What if a bona-fide Jew decides to believe in Jesus. In other words, he accepts all of the Christian teachings about Jesus.

Does that mean he loses his claim to be Jewish?

Is there anything is Jewish theology that prohibits him from believing in Jesus?
Thank you for this thread..... The answer to your question "Does that mean he loses his claim to be Jewish?" is NO..
Messianic Jews were the very first to be known as "Christians" in Antioch.... Jesus is Jewish, His apostles are Jewish, and some of His disciples who followed Him while he walked on earth are Jewish... They recognized Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies and was and is their Messiah ... But the majority of the Jewish people did not recognize and receive Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, according to prophecy and the New Testament of the "Holy Bible"...

Jesus said he did NOT come to abolish the law but to fulfill it....

The Jewish Messiah (Christ Jesus) is prophesied all throughout the "Tanakh" the Old Testament of the "Holy Bible" and witnessed in the New Testament of the "Holy Bible" (see Jeremiah 23:5-6 and Matthew 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ) just for starter's.... Also, Isaiah 53.

**From a Jewish perspective, please explain who the "Us" and "Our" are in Genesis 1:26-27? Thank you.

“Let US make man in OUR image, according to Our likeness;.... Genesis 1:26-27

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made....And the WORD BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us,...." (John 1:1-3,14)

The Word in Genesis is what "..God said.." and That Word, became FLESH.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The prophet Jeremiah predicted that there would be a time when God would make a new covenant with the nation of Israel. (Jeremiah 31:31,33)


Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and create a new covenant between God and His people. The old covenant was written in stone, but the new covenant is written on our hearts, made possible only by faith in Christ, who shed His own blood to atone for the sins of the world. Luke 22:20 says, "After supper, [Jesus] took another cup of wine and said, 'This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you.
~~~~~~~

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
21 But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


"...and they will all have ONE SHEPHERD; and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them." (Ezekiel 37:24)

"And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah, Are by no means least among the leaders of Judah; For out of you shall come forth a Ruler, Who will SHEPHERD My people Israel.'" (Matthew 2:6)

"He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and like one from whom men hide their face, He was despised, and we did not esteem Him." (Isaiah 53:3)

"He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him." (John 1:11)


Thank you for your kindness and patience with the length of this post in advance..

Many blessings.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:51 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,483 posts, read 9,611,933 times
Reputation: 2239
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Believing that Jesus was the Messiah is faaaaaaaaaaaar from the only difference between Judaism and Christianity, and it's kind of insulting to insinuate that it is.
Yay for Leo Baeck!
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:33 PM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,964,342 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie10 View Post
Thank you for this thread..... The answer to your question "Does that mean he loses his claim to be Jewish?" is NO..
Messianic Jews were the very first to be known as "Christians" in Antioch.... Jesus is Jewish, His apostles are Jewish, and some of His disciples who followed Him while he walked on earth are Jewish... They recognized Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies and was and is their Messiah ... But the majority of the Jewish people did not recognize and receive Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, according to prophecy and the New Testament of the "Holy Bible"...

Jesus said he did NOT come to abolish the law but to fulfill it....

The Jewish Messiah (Christ Jesus) is prophesied all throughout the "Tanakh" the Old Testament of the "Holy Bible" and witnessed in the New Testament of the "Holy Bible" (see Jeremiah 23:5-6 and Matthew 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ) just for starter's.... Also, Isaiah 53.

**From a Jewish perspective, please explain who the "Us" and "Our" are in Genesis 1:26-27? Thank you.

“Let US make man in OUR image, according to Our likeness;.... Genesis 1:26-27

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made....And the WORD BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us,...." (John 1:1-3,14)

The Word in Genesis is what "..God said.." and That Word, became FLESH.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The prophet Jeremiah predicted that there would be a time when God would make a new covenant with the nation of Israel. (Jeremiah 31:31,33)


Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and create a new covenant between God and His people. The old covenant was written in stone, but the new covenant is written on our hearts, made possible only by faith in Christ, who shed His own blood to atone for the sins of the world. Luke 22:20 says, "After supper, [Jesus] took another cup of wine and said, 'This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you.
~~~~~~~

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
21 But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


"...and they will all have ONE SHEPHERD; and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them." (Ezekiel 37:24)

"And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah, Are by no means least among the leaders of Judah; For out of you shall come forth a Ruler, Who will SHEPHERD My people Israel.'" (Matthew 2:6)

"He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and like one from whom men hide their face, He was despised, and we did not esteem Him." (Isaiah 53:3)

"He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him." (John 1:11)


Thank you for your kindness and patience with the length of this post in advance..

Many blessings.
thanks for the post! nice layout.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Alaska
6 posts, read 7,458 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
i.e. you can be the worst person on Earth but as long as you believe that Jesus was the Messiah, you're somehow square with G-d.

As a Jew I find that utterly bizarre.

Thank you for your kindness in allowing me to respond to your statement..

This is wrong thinking on your part.. This is NOT what Christianity teaches...

The most important thing to know and believe by faith is in the DEITY of Lord God.... That in itself by His Spirit will CAUSE a person to follow His statues and keep His Judgments... "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." Ezek. 36:27.....

We are saved by God's grace and mercy by our faith in Him... If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has gone and the new has come.... The acts of the sinful nature is obvious.... Christianity teaches to count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus..... do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires..... sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.


Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Of course NOT!

The truly converted, continuing to live sinfully is not an option.... Because our conversion resulted in a completely new nature, our desire is to no longer live in sin..... Yes, we still sin, but instead of living in it and loving it as we once did, we now hate it and wish to be delivered from it...

The idea of “taking advantage” of Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf by continuing to live sinfully is unthinkable.... If a person believes himself to be a Christian and still desires to live the old, sinful life, he has reason to doubt his conversion, newness of life, rebirth, ultimately their salvation.... "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you, unless, of course, you fail the test?" 2 Corinthians 13:5

If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives...

1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. (1 John 2:1-2).

The Lord's blessings to you.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:56 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,031,630 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie10 View Post
I'm sorry Jazzymom if your not here, to hear the Word of God, then what is your business here (rhetorical)...

You have the right not to read anything if your not interested in it.... However I am interested in what people have to say on this thread, please be courteous so I may have an opportunity to learn something from other's...

Thank you and the Lord's blessings to you.

I don't need to hear the Christian word of god, I am Jewish and intend to STAY Jewish.......

Moderator cut: edit

Last edited by june 7th; 02-14-2011 at 07:41 PM..
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:02 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,031,630 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie10 View Post
I'm sorry Jazzymom if your not here, to hear the Word of God, then what is your business here (rhetorical)...

You have the right not to read anything if your not interested in it.... However I am interested in what people have to say on this thread, please be courteous so I may have an opportunity to learn something from other's...

Thank you and the Lord's blessings to you.

This is the OP

Can a person be both Jewish and Christian?
What if a bona-fide Jew decides to believe in Jesus. In other words, he accepts all of the Christian teachings about Jesus.

Does that mean he loses his claim to be Jewish?

Is there anything is Jewish theology that prohibits him from believing in Jesus?


Moderator cut: deleted

Last edited by june 7th; 02-14-2011 at 07:42 PM..
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:09 AM
 
2,084 posts, read 3,901,693 times
Reputation: 1164
I do believe a person can be a Jewish Christian. Actually there are Jews that do believe that Jesus is the Messiah. They are called Jews for Jesus. Growing up and actually talking with a few of these folks, they told my family that Jews believe in the Old Testiment, that there will be a Messiah, but dont believe in the New Testiment and that Jesus was the Messiah. But the Jews for Jesus believe in both Old and New. I am by far not one to judge one person or the next about their beliefs. Its not my place. I do however find Judism fascinating. After all it is part of and linked into christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
You could not say that Jesus was G-d in another form, because he wasn't. He was a false prophet and is worshiped by Christians as an idol. I don't feel like digging through the Torah and Tanakh for all of the scripture that shows why Jesus could not be the Messiah (Jews don't really function on the whole mass copy and paste fest that seems prevalent on the Christianity forum) but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come along behind me and do just that.
My Pastor summed it up perfectly a couple of weeks ago. When God created Adam and Eve he created us to have a wonderful relationship with Him with no sin, death etc. However when they ate of the forbidden fruit, that relationship changed. God wanted that relationship with us so He sent his son Jesus to help to bridge that gap so we can have that relationship with Him.
As a christian, I do not idolize Jesus. My "idol" is God, my heavenly Father. I do believe that God sent his son (Jesus) to earth to teach, heal, to show his Fathers love, was crucified, died for my sins, rose again and sits at the right hand of God. I also believe that the Holy Spirit does exist.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:23 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,031,630 times
Reputation: 804
[quote=ladybug07;17873419]I do believe a person can be a Jewish Christian. Actually there are Jews that do believe that Jesus is the Messiah. They are called Jews for Jesus. Growing up and actually talking with a few of these folks, they told my family that Jews believe in the Old Testiment, that there will be a Messiah, but dont believe in the New Testiment and that Jesus was the Messiah. But the Jews for Jesus believe in both Old and New. I am by far not one to judge one person or the next about their beliefs. Its not my place. I do however find Judism fascinating. After all it is part of and linked into christianity.

Jews for Jesus are not Jews, nor accepted as Jews. The Old Testament was taken from the Hebew Scriptures called the Tanakh. The Tanakh is our book and it was our book before Christianity existed. The only way Jews can be Christian too is that Judaism is inherited. You are born Jewish and you cannot lose your Jewishness. If you become Christian you commit apostasy and you turn your back on your people, but you don't lose your Jewishness.

My Pastor summed it up perfectly a couple of weeks ago. When God created Adam and Eve he created us to have a wonderful relationship with Him with no sin, death etc. However when they ate of the forbidden fruit, that relationship changed. God wanted that relationship with us so He sent his son Jesus to help to bridge that gap so we can have that relationship with Him.
As a christian, I do not idolize Jesus. My "idol" is God, my heavenly Father. I do believe that God sent his son (Jesus) to earth to teach, heal, to show his Fathers love, was crucified, died for my sins, rose again and sits at the right hand of God. I also believe that the Holy Spirit does exist.

This is a Christian idea of sin, not a Jewish one.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:14 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,483 posts, read 9,611,933 times
Reputation: 2239
Actually there are Jews that do believe that Jesus is the Messiah. They are called Jews for Jesus. Growing up and actually talking with a few of these folks, they told my family that Jews believe in the Old Testiment, that there will be a Messiah, but dont believe in the New Testiment and that Jesus was the Messiah

Jews call in the Taanakh, the hebrew bible, or just the bible. We do not call it "the old testament".

jewish views of what the messiah is and will do are quite different from christian views (and even Jews for Jesus views) of Jesus.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:15 AM
 
Location: earth?
7,288 posts, read 9,581,761 times
Reputation: 8956
You never heard of "Jews for Jesus?"
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