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God wanted that relationship with us so He sent his son Jesus to help to bridge that gap so we can have that relationship with Him.
Judaism teaches that we have that relationship through our personal repentance on Yom Kippur, and through our efforts to live by Torah.
The jewish thinker who took probably the most positive view of Jesus was Franz Rosenzweig, who saw Jesus as necessary for the gentiles. But he said (pardon if I get the quote wrong, this is from memory) "Jews do not need to go through the Son to get to the Father, they are already WITH the Father"
Believing that Jesus was the Messiah is faaaaaaaaaaaar from the only difference between Judaism and Christianity, and it's kind of insulting to insinuate that it is.
In a nutshell, Judaism is a religion that emphasizes DOING rather than BELIEVING. Christianity seems to be the other way around, i.e. you can be the worst person on Earth but as long as you believe that Jesus was the Messiah, you're somehow square with G-d.
As a Jew I find that utterly bizarre.
LOL, that is funny when you say it that way, but your perception of Christianity isn't QUITE the way you describe it. Or rather, it's not supposed to be!
God wanted that relationship with us so He sent his son Jesus to help to bridge that gap so we can have that relationship with Him.
Judaism teaches that we have that relationship through our personal repentance on Yom Kippur, and through our efforts to live by Torah.
The jewish thinker who took probably the most positive view of Jesus was Franz Rosenzweig, who saw Jesus as necessary for the gentiles. But he said (pardon if I get the quote wrong, this is from memory) "Jews do not need to go through the Son to get to the Father, they are already WITH the Father"
I tend to follow that line of thought, that Christ opened the door to draw non-Jews to God. My Christian denomination does not believe in converting/proselytizing to Jews (unless of course they decide they want to convert on their own). The Jews were set aside as God's people and given a set of laws to follow. In not accepting Jesus, they were following those laws, and there is no reason to believe that God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants and the law for the Jews as given to Moses was ever cancelled out. It is seen, by some, as an affront to God to try to lure a Jew away from his or her religion.
It is an insult to try to lure anyone away from their religion.... It assumes there wrong in their belief and it needs to be changed.
Those of us who are not Christian have made a choice not to be Christain...
Jazzy, I can understand why Christians want to convert us, and I am not the least insulted when it happens to me.
A friend of mine chipped a tooth badly, so I drove him to the dentist and made him go inside. He got it fixed, and thanked me later.
Christians truly believe that our immortal souls are condemned to hell for eternity. They want to help us, just like I wanted to help my friend avoid more serious dental problems. I don't have any hard feelings toward them for wanting to help me.
Jazzy, I can understand why Christians want to convert us, and I am not the least insulted when it happens to me.
A friend of mine chipped a tooth badly, so I drove him to the dentist and made him go inside. He got it fixed, and thanked me later.
Christians truly believe that our immortal souls are condemned to hell for eternity. They want to help us, just like I wanted to help my friend avoid more serious dental problems. I don't have any hard feelings toward them for wanting to help me.
Then you are a better person then I am because it makes me angry...
I understand why they do too and I think that is what makes me angry...
Then you are a better person then I am because it makes me angry...
I understand why they do too and I think that is what makes me angry...
Jazz
Does Chabad make you angry?
Would you do kiruv (outreach) to secular/nonobservant Jews under any circumstances, in any fashion?
I would like to see more Jews become more Torah observant. I couldnt do that in an aggressive way, even I believed in such ways, which I do not. But any way I can - from trying to model my personal behavior, to arguing on a message board - I would consider doing.
Would you do kiruv (outreach) to secular/nonobservant Jews under any circumstances, in any fashion?
I would like to see more Jews become more Torah observant. I couldnt do that in an aggressive way, even I believed in such ways, which I do not. But any way I can - from trying to model my personal behavior, to arguing on a message board - I would consider doing.
No Chabad doesn't make me angry, I actually take my kids to Chabad activities.
What makes me angry is trying to convert others to a different religion.
No Chabad doesn't make me angry, I actually take my kids to Chabad activities.
What makes me angry is trying to convert others to a different religion.
okay. But chabad does try to make Reform and Conservative Jews into Orthodox (or even particularly Chabad) Jews.
that's not "conversion" technically. It DOES presume the prior choices those jews have made is wrong, though.
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