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Old 03-07-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,388 posts, read 8,052,587 times
Reputation: 4070

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Fantasy? Like muons? Like protons?

Should we believe in coelcanths or the Loch Ness monster?

You can choose to believe in all or any.

The ones that exist are not articles of faith.

 
Old 03-07-2011, 08:38 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,919,627 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanjoe View Post
Soneone sounds a bit overzealous. In my opinion anyway.
over zealous??????never heard of that word and i doubt thats what im being,whatever it is,you just sounded very''i know it all and everyone else is just silly''in your post, thats why i responded.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Kent, Ohio
3,227 posts, read 1,903,648 times
Reputation: 1565
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
.............so sure that God dosent exist??,i mean apart from that you think its unlikely,or apart from having bad religious experiences,,, because if anyone says anything about the existence of God,you all seem so sure that its just fairytales or spaghetti monsters and stuff,loads of things may be unliklely but that dont mean that its immpossible???

I'm not sure that there isn't some sort of Intelligent Designer, but I am reasonably certain that the Bible is not the word of God, and that the sort of God portrayed in the Bible is a fairy-tale creation. The amount of just plain irrational stuff contradicting science in the Bible is so great that I don't really have the energy to list them here (for the millionth time). But even if we grant miracles, etc., this doesn't help address the fact that the Biblical God is a petty, vengeful, incompetent divinity. Why should a loving, intelligent God tell his chosen people to go slay all of the people in a pagan village - even specifying that they should take their swords and kill infants suckling at their mother's breasts? Even if this made some sort of logical sense, it is not the sort of God I would want to worship.

As for the more general concept of an Intelligent Designer, I am less certain. I don't say with confidence that an ID does not exist; I just say that I don't believe there is such a thing. My reasons for this are spelled out in detail in other threads (such as the "Science has better answers than God did it" thread, for example) but the basic idea is simply that all of our empirical evidence suggests that consciousness and intelligence emerge from unconscious processes that are not intelligent in themselves. Also, the human body does not seem like the perfect product of a perfect plan; it seems far more like the result of a messy, exploratory process - like organic evolution, for example.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 09:36 AM
 
705 posts, read 912,374 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
over zealous??????never heard of that word and i doubt thats what im being,whatever it is,you just sounded very''i know it all and everyone else is just silly''in your post, thats why i responded.
Never heard of that word? Here ya go, from the dictionary.com page

o·ver·zeal·ous

ˈoʊvərˈzɛləs Show Spelled[oh-ver-zel-uhs] Show IPA

–adjective too zealous: overzealous for reform.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 10:30 AM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,082,955 times
Reputation: 8258
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I've never seen these particles. But I must assume that they exist because someone else says so?

I should take THEM on faith, but God is a silly joke?

I see both as plausible, but outside the realm of my personal experience. I'm agnostic on a good many things that I have not personally experienced.
Take your blinders off Kramer, there is evidence of sub atomic particles, much more evidence than there is for any god.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 10:37 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,919,627 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
I'm not sure that there isn't some sort of Intelligent Designer, but I am reasonably certain that the Bible is not the word of God, and that the sort of God portrayed in the Bible is a fairy-tale creation. The amount of just plain irrational stuff contradicting science in the Bible is so great that I don't really have the energy to list them here (for the millionth time). But even if we grant miracles, etc., this doesn't help address the fact that the Biblical God is a petty, vengeful, incompetent divinity. Why should a loving, intelligent God tell his chosen people to go slay all of the people in a pagan village - even specifying that they should take their swords and kill infants suckling at their mother's breasts? Even if this made some sort of logical sense, it is not the sort of God I would want to worship.

As for the more general concept of an Intelligent Designer, I am less certain. I don't say with confidence that an ID does not exist; I just say that I don't believe there is such a thing. My reasons for this are spelled out in detail in other threads (such as the "Science has better answers than God did it" thread, for example) but the basic idea is simply that all of our empirical evidence suggests that consciousness and intelligence emerge from unconscious processes that are not intelligent in themselves. Also, the human body does not seem like the perfect product of a perfect plan; it seems far more like the result of a messy, exploratory process - like organic evolution, for example.
yeah im not realy a beleiver in much of the bible either,their probly is some truth in it though.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,055,418 times
Reputation: 10909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Take your blinders off Kramer, there is evidence of sub atomic particles, much more evidence than there is for any god.

According to who? If I haven't seen the proof, it's not proof. The only viable evidence is that I have experienced myself. Otherwise, I'm just taking someone else's word for it. I don't feel comfortable with that.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,055,418 times
Reputation: 10909
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoro View Post
You can choose to believe in all or any.

The ones that exist are not articles of faith.
Which ones exist? Which have you seen with your own eyes, by your own experiences?

Are you willing to take "science" on faith, just because someone says this is so? I'm not willing to believe someone else's experiences.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 02:57 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,388 posts, read 8,052,587 times
Reputation: 4070
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Which ones exist?
The real ones.

Quote:
Which have you seen with your own eyes, by your own experiences?
Neither of us has ever seen electricity, yet it's the medium we communicate through on this forum.

Quote:
Are you willing to take "science" on faith, just because someone says this is so?
Science doesn't rest on faith. Scientific findings are not say-so.

Quote:
I'm not willing to believe someone else's experiences.
I'm not a believer, either.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 04:26 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,082,955 times
Reputation: 8258
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
According to who? If I haven't seen the proof, it's not proof. The only viable evidence is that I have experienced myself. Otherwise, I'm just taking someone else's word for it. I don't feel comfortable with that.
Thus explains the life of TKramer, how sad.
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